What is your go-to home defense weapon?

Magdump · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
I don't really care what you do, but I do find it interesting in how you make your choices, that's all. Also, you chose to make an account on a public board and state your opinions. I'm just challenging you to back them up. I might learn something from you, though that is seeming to be not the case right now. You aren't even obligated to respond to me. Don't take it personally - I am disagreeing with your preconceived notions and assertions of fact, not with you as a person.

There is absolutely a shelf life on training. There is an old saying that practice makes perfect, but that is not true. Practicing something wrong may make one an expert at doing something the wrong way. Perfect practice makes perfect is the correct phrase.

In your case, it seems like you're set on justifying every way that has led you into your current setup, but not considering the others. Maybe you have done so and just haven't made it clear. Regardless, you should go try some real, formal training with a shotgun in close quarters.

Have you ever taken a force on force class where people are shooting back at you?

The notion that you have that I need to justify or prove anything to you says it all. Good luck in life.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

Magdump said:
The notion that you have that I need to justify or prove anything to you says it all. Good luck in life.

Unlike common conversations that are often filled with anecdotes, your posts online are recorded and available for all to observe. Making outlandish statements that don't hold much credibility can be detrimental to those who are uninformed.

The notion that you have set me on ignore says it all. Good luck in life.

AustinBR · Oct 9, 2019

jhal23 said:
Unlike common conversations that are often filled with anecdotes, your posts online are recorded and available for all to observe. Making outlandish statements that don't hold much credibility can be detrimental to those who are uninformed.

The notion that you have set me on ignore says it all. Good luck in life.

Agreed. The point of an online discussion board is to discuss. Simply stating "Here's my idea, I won't discuss as you won't change my mind" pretty much defeats the purpose of a discussion board.

Ignoring people who disagree with you isn't a way to discuss things and certainly isn't a way to further one's skills, knowledge, or mindset. But you do you.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
Agreed. The point of an online discussion board is to discuss. Simply stating "Here's my idea, I won't discuss as you won't change my mind" pretty much defeats the purpose of a discussion board.

Ignoring people who disagree with you isn't a way to discuss things and certainly isn't a way to further one's skills, knowledge, or mindset. But you do you.

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Frogman · Oct 9, 2019

I keep a Sig P 220 .45 ACP with three mags in the drawer next to my bed and a Tactical 12 ga. shotgun loaded with Rhodesian dangerous game loads in the corner next to my bed.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

Frogman said:
I keep a Sig P 220 .45 ACP with three mags in the drawer next to my bed and a Tactical 12 ga. shotgun loaded with Rhodesian dangerous game loads in the corner next to my bed.

Out of curiosity, do you have a method to carry those three spare magazines if needed?

AustinBR · Oct 9, 2019

To further elaborate, let's say that a young (or old) person who is inexperienced with firearms wants to learn more and stumbles on this site. If he/she sees someone with 3000+ posts making bold statements about something, it could shape his/her views and lead him/her down a bad path.

Example: Growing up I was taught that revolvers were the best option for self-defense outside and that shotguns were the best inside. This was because my father and his father were brought up on this mindset. I didn't know enough, initially, to challenge it. Growing up and taking formal training from people who actually know what they are talking about and actual industry best practices was enlightening, to say the least.

Making blanket statements and then not defending them or challenging the belief is what leads people into doing what my father (who now knows better) did.

Formal training is awesome. Anyone who hasn't taken formal training classes really should. Firearm skills are things that if you do not use, you lose. There is a reason that anyone who does anything that involves force (police, military, fighters, sports teams, etc) practices constantly. These groups also constantly challenge their training and tactics to determine if there are things they can do better.

Again, you do you, but spouting stuff on a forum and then blocking people who disagree with you or want you to expound on your notions just isn't cool....and defeats the purpose of a /discussion/ board.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
To further elaborate, let's say that a young (or old) person who is inexperienced with firearms wants to learn more and stumbles on this site. If he/she sees someone with 3000+ posts making bold statements about something, it could shape his/her views and lead him/her down a bad path.

Example: Growing up I was taught that revolvers were the best option for self-defense outside and that shotguns were the best inside. This was because my father and his father were brought up on this mindset. I didn't know enough, initially, to challenge it. Growing up and taking formal training from people who actually know what they are talking about and actual industry best practices was enlightening, to say the least.

Making blanket statements and then not defending them or challenging the belief is what leads people into doing what my father (who now knows better) did.

Formal training is awesome. Anyone who hasn't taken formal training classes really should. Firearm skills are things that if you do not use, you lose. There is a reason that anyone who does anything that involves force (police, military, fighters, sports teams, etc) practices constantly. These groups also constantly challenge their training and tactics to determine if there are things they can do better.

Again, you do you, but spouting stuff on a forum and then blocking people who disagree with you or want you to expound on your notions just isn't cool....and defeats the purpose of a /discussion/ board.

So you're saying that standing on a static range shooting your shotgun at random things isn't training or preparing you to defend yourself?

AustinBR · Oct 9, 2019

jhal23 said:
So you're saying that standing on a static range shooting your shotgun at random things isn't training or preparing you to defend yourself?

Exactly. Hitting a punching bag does NOT prepare you for someone swinging at your face.

Static targets that aren't shooting back at you don't prepare you for anything besides being more accurate...which is lost whenever you add movement into it. Training to hit moving targets while you are moving is key.

Plus, ranges are well-lit. Many of these home-defense scenerios will take place at night...in darkness.

Bangswitch · Oct 9, 2019

jhal23 said:
So you're saying that standing on a static range shooting your shotgun at random things isn't training or preparing you to defend yourself?

Another bias statement shooting any gun at a range at a static target isn't enough to constitute training for defensive or even most offensive shooting, its where you begin and its where you refresh you fundamentals. If static range practice was of no use, the military and departments all across the globe would save trillions of dollars. Its just a piece of the puzzle. Its a big piece, but its still just a piece.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

Bangswitch said:
Another bias statement shooting any gun at a range at a static target isn't enough to constitute training for defensive or even most offensive shooting, its where you begin and its where you refresh you fundamentals. If static range practice was of no use, the military and departments all across the globe would save trillions of dollars. Its just a piece of the puzzle. Its a big piece, but its still just a piece.

The military and LE agencies around the globe also train in team environments, classroom environments, and in shoot houses with live fire and sims. Your attempt at justifying a lack of training being sufficient shows ignorance.

I have no objection to anyone who chooses to limit themselves. I do, however, have an objection to the ideology that limited to no training is "good enough."

AustinBR · Oct 9, 2019

Bangswitch said:
Another bias statement shooting any gun at a range at a static target isn't enough to constitute training for defensive or even most offensive shooting, its where you begin and its where you refresh you fundamentals. If static range practice was of no use, the military and departments all across the globe would save trillions of dollars. Its just a piece of the puzzle. Its a big piece, but its still just a piece.

I disagree that it is a bias. Shooting at a static range does teach fundamentals, but it is comparable to boxing against a static bag. Yes you get good at squeezing the trigger and bringing in groups, but without good tactics under stress, fundamentals go out the door.

I think that the bias is that shooting static targets while in a static position translates to being good at self-defense shooting.

What formal training have you taken? Have you taken any FoF training?

Bangswitch · Oct 9, 2019

jhal23 said:
The military and LE agencies around the globe also train in team environments, classroom environments, and in shoot houses with live fire and sims. Your attempt at justifying a lack of training being sufficient shows ignorance.

I have no objection to anyone who chooses to limit themselves. I do, however, have an objection to the ideology that limited to no training is "good enough."

I find your reading comprehension objectionable. Go back requote me and show me where I said punching paper is good enough.

Bangswitch · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
I disagree that it is a bias. Shooting at a static range does teach fundamentals, but it is comparable to boxing against a static bag. Yes you get good at squeezing the trigger and bringing in groups, but without good tactics under stress, fundamentals go out the door.

I think that the bias is that shooting static targets while in a static position translates to being good at self-defense shooting.

What formal training have you taken? Have you taken any FoF training?

His attempt to single out the shotgun was the bias I was pointing out.

Please reread my post I have and will never endorse a basic shooting lesson as good enough for anything other than more shooting.

AustinBR · Oct 9, 2019

Bangswitch said:
His attempt to single out the shotgun was the bias I was pointing out.

Gotcha. I stand by my statement that shooting any firearm at a static target while not moving is not good preparation for any self defense shooting.

Real targets move. Real targets shoot back.

It is key learning how to move and how to utilize both cover and concealment (in and out of the home). A static range doesn't teach that and leads to people being complacent and thinking that their abilities are better than they actually are.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

Bangswitch said:
His attempt to single out the shotgun was the bias I was pointing out.

Please reread my post I have and will never endorse a basic shooting lesson as good enough for anything other than more shooting.

There are actually three choices to choose from. All have distinct advantages and disadvantages.

I'm curious about why one would select each specific choice. I'm not curious about opinions based on mythology and an unwillingness to have a discussion. AustinBR has already stated that some of the members here have stated that they refuse to be swayed regardless of what facts are presented.

I'm sorry if you look at this thread as a personal attack.

DAVE_M · Oct 9, 2019

Bangswitch said:
I find your reading comprehension objectionable. Go back requote me and show me where I said punching paper is good enough.

Unfortunately, the question at hand wasn't directed towards you. You chose to interject into the conversation. I understand if you want to white knight for a mate, but it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Bangswitch · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
Gotcha. I stand by my statement that shooting any firearm at a static target while not moving is not good preparation for any self defense shooting.

Real targets move. Real targets shoot back.

It is key learning how to move and how to utilize both cover and concealment (in and out of the home). A static range doesn't teach that and leads to people being complacent and thinking that their abilities are better than they actually are.

Agreed

DBMJR1 · Oct 9, 2019

AustinBR said:
Have you ever taken a force on force class where people are shooting back at you?

LOL

What kind of insane classes are you taking where people are returning fire at you?

DBMJR1 · Oct 9, 2019

My question for those choosing AR-15's, particularly suppressed.

Are these weapons stored at the ready, next to your bed?

What is your go-to home defense weapon?

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