Secure room construction

[Nomad.2nd]

Having a Metal building built on my land (Not going to live there, pull my Airstream into it when I'm there a few months a year.), probably going to put a secure room in... 10x12-16ish....

Not going to put a safe door in and spend the thousands involved, but a metal door with hidden hinges, welded box so the lock can't be easily cut etc.

Trying to decide how to do the walls, Sheets of welded steel, concrete and rebar etc.

Might make it an above ground tornado shelter.... soliciting ideas.

Not an armory, mostly for ammo and mags, + a few guns.

 

[Leadfoot]

Sea can would probably be the most affordable and easiest option.

 

[nolaradio]

My company bought some like new 20' containers a few months back form Boasso for $4,000. Just a thought.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Sorry, I mean I'm going to put in a secure room IN the building.

I've lived in Cans in Iraq... not doing that for the building.

 

[anakha]

Cement filled cinder block walls with rebar reinforcement. Going cinder block you won't have to worry about building forms for the cement walls. Just stagger the blocks and drop a stick of rebar in each void... If your shop is going to have a cement floor I would have rebar protruding from the slab so the walls would be tied to the floor

 

[JNieman]

I'm with Leadfoot, here. Put that shipping container (they come in a variety of sizes, some short ones exist) on the slab, install appropriate anchors to the concrete (for storms, more than anything) and you're good. The wood inside is chemically nasty, but you're not going to be living in it or eating off it. It can also be tore out and replaced with standard CDX or T&G decking or something, if desired.

You don't need something fancy like those hipster architects who are repurposing them for dorm housing and stuff, just a decent-enough container you can get someone to transport on-site.

If the transportation is too problematic - CMU with reinforced cells is good. You don't need a rebar in every cell, and don't really need to even grout-in every 'column' of cells, but it's not gonna hurt. Put a good proper header beam over the door and full grout it in, and fully grout/cement all 'columns' of cells adjacent to openings, and every 2-3 spaces, and it'll still be overbuilt to withstand storms if your metal building blew away. The roof over the CMU walls would be the kicker, where you'd need to make sure you anchor it properly. Simpson Strong-tie makes some good anchors for the top plates you'd anchor into the CMU, prior to nailing down your rafters, or whatever roof framing you use.

A typical stick-framed room with steel plate reinforcement is gonna be pricey, but with a welder on-sight, is easier to DIY. You'd need to anchor the steel to the floor, likely by welding some shoes onto the plates and using wedge anchors. I honestly don't know of anyone who's done this method, so there is probably a reason not to.

I'd lean toward the shipping container or CMU. Shipping container is just so damned easy. They sell storage units like that for retail stores to use for merchandise. I know Toys'R'Us uses them a lot for holiday times. I got some furniture items for the kiddo for xmas from them, and they had to bring the tag to the warehouse to pick it up. They had some like 12-15' long and some the full 20-24'.

As for locking the shipping container, you can have someone weld a protective cuff around the lock, I bet, if it's not secure enough. It's easy enough to weld on new locking points with protective housing to cover the hasp.

CMU would require a secure door, and sufficiently strong mounting for the door and doorframe. It's going to have to be tied into the CMU well enough to resist kicking in, and then be a strong-enough door with sufficient locking. These aren't terrible challenges - just fleshing out the details. The shipping container has the benefit of already having a daunting door that would require a very dedicated, very prepared, and capable individual who doesn't mind spending some time there.

 

[Big Jake]

I have seen several of these constructed as safe rooms inside of houses. Just one option but cinder block, layer of metal, layer of plywood, will withstand a 2x4 launched from an air cannon at 200 mph...... So they say. Flying debris being one of the dangers in a tornado. I thought about the sea can my self but from what i have read concrete protects from radiation better if that matters to you.

 

[JNieman]

Even if the slab is already poured, you can drill and epoxy some dowels into the slab that'll help it resist lateral movement for storms. The best method, though, is to have a good 24-36" of rebar sticking out of the slab (this has to be done and planned out when you pour the slab) every 2'-4', and a good 12" hook on the embedded end of the bar to resist pulling out in storm winds, if the metal building blows away. You would then make sure to cement in every column of cells those bars end up in, and overlap those bars at least 18" with a bar that continues to the top of the wall. Metal buildings should be good these days though, with a good erector. Barring the pre-cast bars, embedding dowels can help, but won't rival the embedded bars effectiveness.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

For the last time:


I'm NOT DOING A F&^%$NG SHIPPING CONTAINER!!!!!!

I'm doing a 40x40x14 metal building.

a ROOM inside the building will be secured storage, and is the subject of this thread.

My thanks to those who can read.

(Sorry if this comes off pissy, but I'm tired of being told that by people with no experience with them. I've lived in Cans, and used them for storage. They have decided issues which I'm not willing to deal with. )

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Even if the slab is already poured, you can drill and epoxy some dowels into the slab that'll help it resist lateral movement for storms. The best method, though, is to have a good 24-36" of rebar sticking out of the slab (this has to be done and planned out when you pour the slab) every 2'-4', and a good 12" hook on the embedded end of the bar to resist pulling out in storm winds, if the metal building blows away. You would then make sure to cement in every column of cells those bars end up in, and overlap those bars at least 18" with a bar that continues to the top of the wall. Metal buildings should be good these days though, with a good erector. Barring the pre-cast bars, embedding dowels can help, but won't rival the embedded bars effectiveness.

Thank you, This is what I'm looking for.

I'm currently taking bids on the building and plan on breaking ground in May.
Nothing set yet.

 

[Leadfoot]

You asked...

Anyway, if thats not your cup of tea... Try some fire rock sandwiching some expanded metal.

 

[CEHollier]

For the last time:


I'm NOT DOING A F&^%$NG SHIPPING CONTAINER!!!!!!

I'm doing a 40x40x14 metal building.

a ROOM inside the building will be secured storage, and is the subject of this thread.

My thanks to those who can read.

(Sorry if this comes off pissy, but I'm tired of being told that by people with no experience with them. I've lived in Cans, and used them for storage. They have decided issues which I'm not willing to deal with. )

Did you consider a Sea Can?

 

[Nomad.2nd]

You asked...

Anyway, if thats not your cup of tea... Try some fire rock sandwiching some expanded metal.

Yea, sorry. It came out worse than I meant to.

Cans are the LAST thing I think about when I think 'secure room'

I saw a video on youtube of these 2 guys breaking into one in something like 10 seconds.

 

[Leadfoot]

In their generic form, yes, I can see them being easily breached, however in many cases they form an excellent base to improve upon.

But that's neither here nor there.

A friend of mine built basically a large gun safe/closet out 5/8" thick fire resistant sheet rock with 14 gauge expanded metal in between another sheet of 5/8" rock. He then installed a heavy steel door with a welded over hinges and striker.

If someone is really determined to get into something, nothing short of a bank vault will stop them.

 

[king4456]

my cousins house burned two years ago and before he put up brick he put this safe room in and bricked in the back side and bolted it to the floor. 1/4" steel. Had my brother cut a hole in the top and run an AC duct to it. It is what you want. I can ask where he got it if ya like. 8x8 I think with benches built in.

 

[Redd508]

Even if the slab is already poured, you can drill and epoxy some dowels into the slab that'll help it resist lateral movement for storms. The best method, though, is to have a good 24-36" of rebar sticking out of the slab (this has to be done and planned out when you pour the slab) every 2'-4', and a good 12" hook on the embedded end of the bar to resist pulling out in storm winds, if the metal building blows away. You would then make sure to cement in every column of cells those bars end up in, and overlap those bars at least 18" with a bar that continues to the top of the wall. Metal buildings should be good these days though, with a good erector. Barring the pre-cast bars, embedding dowels can help, but won't rival the embedded bars effectiveness.

Cmu is 16" for a block and a mortar joint. Imbed rods dont need more than a 4" bend in the end. And spacing for solid filling cores doesnt need to be more than 32" on center but of course more is better. Rebar can be added in 4ft lengths and welded to the ends of the other rods as the wall goes up. 3000 psi concrete is sufficient for commercial jobs but specify no ash in your mix. Its just filler and serves no purpose. When you get t the top of the wall bend the reinforcing to lay in a continuous bond beam filled with concrete. Its up to you if you want to wood frame the roof or pour concrete. Concrete obviously being more secure.

 

[JNieman]

My bad, I thought you wanted a storage room inside your metal building for living in. I didn't realize you wan't to stay in the secure room. I thought the metal building was the living space, and the secure room was just for valuables and irreplacables.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

My bad, I thought you wanted a storage room inside your metal building for living in. I didn't realize you wan't to stay in the secure room. I thought the metal building was the living space, and the secure room was just for valuables and irreplacables.

Wait.... What?

I CANNOT FOLLOW what you wrote.

I am putting up a metal building.

It will have 2 rooms for storage and 2 bedrooms for guests.

I ALSO want to be able to pull my airstream into it.

It will have a bathroom and a secure room to put the ammo couch in.

The secure room may be designed to function as a above ground tornado shelter. Or it may not.

The secure room is the subject of this discussion.


Hope we are on the same page now.

 

[kcinnick]

I would go with the cinder blocks filled with cement with rebar throughout. You could further secure the room with plywood and metal lining if you wish. The ceiling is going to be the hardest part. You can get a door with deadbolts on both sides of the door, even on the top, it would be more than adequate.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Priciate the "tie in" recommendations.


Door ideas?