Will Smith, former Saint, shot dead in NOLA
- Thread starter Saintsfan6
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Well, if I'm not coming from or going to work, they'd probably find a loaded gun in my vehicle, too. And you can bet your ass that I'll have one on my hip if I run somebody down that hit me and ran (however stupid that may be.)
...just to play devil's advocate. As always, we don't know ****.
...just to play devil's advocate. As always, we don't know ****.
Couldn't a person approach a car mad as hell that his car had been hit and run on, and just happen to be armed (legally or not is not the question in this example), and after exchanging some very heated words, maybe even threats of bodily harm, possibly (and remaining to be determined), by an intoxicated man, then assume or fear that the driver was reaching for a possible weapon at some point?
Did you not see what happened in Menace to Society when Harold was being carjacked and he went for his gun?
The shooter (Mr. Hayes), calmly waited for police to arrive after the shooting. Did not run. Did not hide the weapon! That is not necessarily "thug" behavior!
Hayes didn't have much choice about staying or leaving. He was blocked in front by the SUV with the dead guy in it and by the 2 or 3 cars that pulled up behind him by the time he finished shooting (that's a pretty busy street on a Saturday night). He could have run away on foot but the Big Orange Humvee would lead cops to him anyway. Plus his passenger, who didn't do anything wrong, would have to agree to run with him or lie to the cops when they questioned him. I don't think the fact that he stayed says as much about his degree of "thugness" as it does his lack of options.
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A video of the scene after the shooting has a witness saying Smith said "Leave us alone, I have a gun." or something to that effect. The "Leave us alone" will speak to the level of threat Smith posed. Hayes' only shot is to get a change of venue. If I were his attorney I'd be looking at Atlanta,GA, Tampa, FL or Charlotte, NC.
I don't know if it was a dick move or not, maybe the passenger said "Hey pull over and let me get some cigarettes(there was on open parking space next to the Humvee which are scarce as hen's teeth on Magazine St on a Saturday night). Smith may or may not have tapped him but even if he did it was a slight tap at best. Most people who get hit from behind would put it in park,get out and tell the guy who tapped him "Pull over and let's look at my car" All Hayes does is pull into the parking spot which Smith might have assumed he stopped for to begin with so he simple pulls around him and keeps heading downtown. The DA won't lower the charges in something as high profile as this case. Unlike some states, LA juries can decide on a lesser charge if they want to. I spoke to a lawyer who said because the wife was shot during the commission of a felony (shooting Smith) the DA could file Attempted first degree murder charges in her shooting.
Not saying right or wrong, but If Hayes discharged his weapon, because smith, mentioned gun, or feared he was reaching for one, (perceived threat!!!) it's a strong possibility he can be found not guilty of murder. Regardless of his past
Our stand your ground laws
Any person "who is in a place where he or she has a right," including a public space, does not have an obligation "to retreat" if faced with a real or perceived threat and "may stand his or her ground and meet force with force."
During criminal court proceedings, a judge or jury can't consider the "possibility of retreat" as a factor in determining whether someone lawfully used force in self-defense.
No one acting in self-defense under these laws can be civilly prosecuted for the use of force, deadly or otherwise.
Our stand your ground laws
Any person "who is in a place where he or she has a right," including a public space, does not have an obligation "to retreat" if faced with a real or perceived threat and "may stand his or her ground and meet force with force."
During criminal court proceedings, a judge or jury can't consider the "possibility of retreat" as a factor in determining whether someone lawfully used force in self-defense.
No one acting in self-defense under these laws can be civilly prosecuted for the use of force, deadly or otherwise.
Uh oh! New camera angle clearly shows Mr. Hayes was stopping (not performing an intentional dick move), because there were cars stopped in front of him at the light.
You, like almost every one so far in the media, and damn near every Saints fan, are assuming that Mr. Hayes "intentionally" shot Smith's wife.
With each day that goes by, Will Smith starts to appear less like a "Saint" in all of this. Now, that in no way exonerates anyone; what it speaks is volumes of a society that picks winners and losers on appearances, stature, fame, media inaccuracy, and innuendo.
And it also shows just how big a douche Sean Peyton is for sticking his nose in it!
Now, lets find out if Mr. Smith's gun was legally obtained. And how much he had to drink (toxicology report).
Want some more; "what if's?"
What if: Will Smith's gun is stolen? What if they say the serial numbers were defaced? What if the cops already have a phone video that has the verbal exchange clearly recorded? What if Smith said, "Leave us alone, I have a gun and I will kill your f'n ass!, ni&&a? <Don't think he talks like that because he was on the Superbowl team? What if his blood alcohol level is well over the limit? What if there are other drugs in his system?
Want me to keep going?
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From a concealed carry standpoint, this case is beginning to shape up as being one of the most important determinations and outcomes of fact I could think of.
Any one that conceal carries is FAR more likely to encounter this type of scenario in the course of the day, then almost ANY other scenario I can think of. Do you think you are more likely to be approached by an armed robber? A crazed person at a gas station? Someone kicking your door in while you are watching t.v.? Caught in a riot?
You fellow CC'ers better pay attention!
Any one that conceal carries is FAR more likely to encounter this type of scenario in the course of the day, then almost ANY other scenario I can think of. Do you think you are more likely to be approached by an armed robber? A crazed person at a gas station? Someone kicking your door in while you are watching t.v.? Caught in a riot?
You fellow CC'ers better pay attention!
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He shot her twice. It is up to him to prove that accidental. All we know is that he shot her twice.
It is also possible that he continued shooting after Smith was down.
Smith did not even touch his gun. Hayes was ready like "Doc" Holiday.
I may buy a Go Pro and put it on and before I put on the holster.
This changes everything IF IT"S TRUE.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2016/04/will_smith_family_statement.html#incart_river_home
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2016/04/will_smith_family_statement.html#incart_river_home
whbonney26
Well-Known Member
Coroners report says he was shot 8 times including 7 times in the back.
That don't fare well for any self defense.
Lawyer says Smith has a concealed permit yet didn't have the gun on his person that night but rather in the car.
That don't fare well for any self defense.
Lawyer says Smith has a concealed permit yet didn't have the gun on his person that night but rather in the car.
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That's why we have trials! And regardless of what Smith's lawyer says; in what is left of the USA; Mr. Hayes has the presumption of innocence!
BTW: The Lawyer is embellishing about the sudden stop! The video this morning from the other angle of the stop at St. Andrew, clearly shows 2 cars in front of him at the stop light. And as far as a deserted street, there were people (on these videos) on that sidewalk! Plus a lot of traffic!
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whbonney26
Well-Known Member
Very true however; you were running with what the killers lawyer was saying and video and wording of a few media reports that said "hit and run" (when it looked to me as though they didn't even hit the hummer) to personally state that Will Smith is looking less and less of a Saint......like he provoked his death.
I guess things will come out in court but I will bet that the back shooting coward will be convicted pretty easily.
