developing a load for heavy recoil rifle

[sksshooter]

Those that reload i'd like to hear your method for developing a load up for heavier recoiling rifles. Ideally i prefer to load up 5 rounds each at my chosen powder charges. shoot each 5 round group and when i find my most accurate node then i go back and tweak from there up and down a half grain etc. I've had a 300wsm for a couple of years now that i have been needing to develop a load for and finally decided to get that done this year. the rifle is a browning a-bolt with wood stock and is on the lighter weigh side so i expected it to have decent recoil. i threw my existing process out and tried something different. i started off with a 165 grain nosler and loaded 3 rounds of each charge. I stared at the lowest charge and worked up in 1 grain increments and went and shot them. i also went ahead and loaded a different powder with the 165s. in the spirit of saving time i went 1 grain above min and loaded up in 1 grain increments from there. i also have some 180's that i would like to work up as well so i did the same skipping the min charge. in all i had 27 rounds to test in groups of 3. i shot these all in one sitting over the course of apx 2.5ish hours allowing the barrel to cool between groups. i ended up with a couple of good nodes to work from and a shoulder bruised all to hell. i'll work with the load i have in the 165's and should be able to dial it in just a bit. i'm going to save the other info for later to work up.

 

[Boomer51]

I think your method is fine. There is nothing wrong with a folded up towel on your shoulder to absorb some of the abuse. With jacketed I usually start at a mid point between minimum and maximum. I've found that jacketed bullets are usually most accurate just below max.
Once I find a load I like, then I start experimenting with bullet seating depth.

 

[sksshooter]

that has been my experience as well but not on this go round. the range for this particular load is 64-68 and 65 produced the best group.

 

[Boomer51]

I have a 6mm/06 that shoots 100 gr best at max using 240 wby data. The only short mag I load for is 270 and IIRC it's best is near max also.

 

[sksshooter]

my 270wsm likes it on the top end. actually the newer nosler book has me 1 grain over max iirc.

 

[twinin]

I mostly use Berger bullets. For bolt guns, I usually load 5 or 6 groups with different seating depths and the same charge. 1 usually sticks out from the others. I tweak the powder charge from there. When I did the same seating and different powder charges, I found it took longer and more components to find a node. That's just me. I am not the final authority of course.

If recoil is a problem, it could be messing with your groups and leading to the lighter charge the best. For 300 wsm, you could load them more like 308 win to help. Also, I find that slower but heavier for caliber bullets recoil less if that helps.

 

[john17427]

I use a lead sled when I'm developing loads for the 9.3x62 Mauser. Takes all the pain and some of the variables out of the testing process.

 

[La Rebel]

I use a Hyskore shooting rest that has an integral hydraulic shock absorber. Watched a buddy of mine crack the stock on his 8mm Rem Mag using a Lead Sled. All the recoil energy is "absorbed" by the rifle with a lead sled.

 

[twinin]

I figured the answer was simple like he already has the WSM and components and doesn't have a 308 or it's worth buying one at this point

 

[sksshooter]

Id never load the wsm down to a 308. Id just buy a 308. This isnt that i cant handle the 300wsm. Its a matter of shooting a light weight, non compensated magnum enough to work a load up. I fired 27 rounds out of it in one sitting. The next day i knew i shot it and had a pretty decent bruise. Past load development there will never be a need to fire this rifle more than a few times per sitting or hunt.

Was more looking for ideas on efficiency and making sure there wasnt some new miracle method to identifying a load that i havent came across.

 

[theway109]

Do you like beating yourself up with recoil? Do you like wasting components and barrel life? I sure don't.

You're not shooting enough groups to have any statistical significance of a "node" (they don't exist), so why bother?

Purchase quality components. Use a powder with an appropriate burn rate for the cartridge/bullet weight. Weigh charges with a scale and dispenser which is capable of measuring to the kernel. Seat the bullet with the boat tail at the neck/shoulder junction. Then load a ladder of single rounds and shoot them over a chronograph. Pick a charge/velocity that shows no pressure signs and you're done.

 

[sksshooter]

Do you like beating yourself up with recoil? Do you like wasting components and barrel life? I sure don't.

You're not shooting enough groups to have any statistical significance of a "node" (they don't exist), so why bother?

Purchase quality components. Use a powder with an appropriate burn rate for the cartridge/bullet weight. Weigh charges with a scale and dispenser which is capable of measuring to the kernel. Seat the bullet with the boat tail at the neck/shoulder junction. Then load a ladder of single rounds and shoot them over a chronograph. Pick a charge/velocity that shows no pressure signs and you're done.

I would disagree with your idea of not finding a node. While i didnt find the the absolute best it is capable of shooting. The data i do have says that 64.5-65.5 range is going to give my best results at that seating depth. Lower and higher opened up. Could i adjust sesting depth across them all and find something at the higher charge range? Maybe but im limited to some degree on the factory box mag and ensuring smooth feeding in a hunting purpose rifle.

Seems like a bit of assumptions on your part that im not using quality components.
Im loading fully prepped brass, with winchester LRM primers with alliant powder and nosler bullets. Powder is hand trickled on a tuned m5 scale, rcbs dies in a redding t7 press. The components and equipment are capable of producing plenty accurate ammo for a factory rifle. I was able to produce a 3 shot group just under 1" at 100yards shooting from a sandbag. I got caught up in the whole ladder method 15 plus years ago when i started out loading. It produced a several indistinguishable patterns. If i were dealing with a more capable rifle i may be willing to consider looking at a ladder test again but im not. My 270 wsm has shot multiple 5 shot groups in the .6-.75" range at 100. Thats a factory winchester barrel and action in a bedded stock. It has seekins base and rings with a leupold 4-14.5x50 vx3L. This rifle is factory a bolt in factory wood stock with the same scope and mount setup. Im not expecting to shoot .3's im after a less than 1" consistantly from ammo i can go crank out at any time i want.

 

[theway109]

I would disagree with your idea of not finding a node. While i didnt find the the absolute best it is capable of shooting. The data i do have says that 64.5-65.5 range is going to give my best results at that seating depth. Lower and higher opened up. Could i adjust sesting depth across them all and find something at the higher charge range? Maybe but im limited to some degree on the factory box mag and ensuring smooth feeding in a hunting purpose rifle.

Seems like a bit of assumptions on your part that im not using quality components.
Im loading fully prepped brass, with winchester LRM primers with alliant powder and nosler bullets. Powder is hand trickled on a tuned m5 scale, rcbs dies in a redding t7 press. The components and equipment are capable of producing plenty accurate ammo for a factory rifle. I was able to produce a 3 shot group just under 1" at 100yards shooting from a sandbag. I got caught up in the whole ladder method 15 plus years ago when i started out loading. It produced a several indistinguishable patterns. If i were dealing with a more capable rifle i may be willing to consider looking at a ladder test again but im not. My 270 wsm has shot multiple 5 shot groups in the .6-.75" range at 100. Thats a factory winchester barrel and action in a bedded stock. It has seekins base and rings with a leupold 4-14.5x50 vx3L. This rifle is factory a bolt in factory wood stock with the same scope and mount setup. Im not expecting to shoot .3's im after a less than 1" consistantly from ammo i can go crank out at any time i want.

You shot 27 rounds in 9 three shot groups, across different charges. There isn't anything statistically significant that can be drawn from such a low number of shots. You're not going to shoot a deer for groups anyway, so why does it matter if it's a half inch or inch and a half group?

You asked for load development for a heavy recoiling rifle. My described method was exactly what I did for my 300 Norma Magnum.

 

[john17427]

My first load workup with the 9.3 was with my bare shoulder and that took a while to recover from. I had the same crazy idea that if I was going to shoot a large caliber, that I should be able to handle long sessions with it. I subsequently read, and this was quite some time ago, that nobody in their right mind works up load data without a rest or sandbags between them and the gun. The source I read said there's a big difference between shooting an African class cartridge from a standing position versus benched. When you're standing, your whole body can flex and absorb the recoil, whereas from the bench it's all going into your shoulder, and in practice I've found this to be true. I wish I still had the reference I read.

 

[sksshooter]

Has anyone used a shooting

You shot 27 rounds in 9 three shot groups, across different charges. There isn't anything statistically significant that can be drawn from such a low number of shots. You're not going to shoot a deer for groups anyway, so why does it matter if it's a half inch or inch and a half group?

You asked for load development for a heavy recoiling rifle. My described method was exactly what I did for my 300 Norma Magnum.

i agree that a half inch vs 1.5" really makes no difference for deer hunting. had i had 1.5" as my largest 3 shot i probably would have picked one and called it a day. ive honestly never seen such a big change in group size from the bottom of the charge range to the top. at 68 3 shots were right at 5". What were you able to achieve consistantly from the 300nm by doing the ladder? as i said i've never been successful with the ladder method and there is a large number of folks out there that agree it isn't effective a large percentage of time. I may give it another go when i decide to commit the time to finding a 180g load.

 

[Bolt Head]

Sorry about that dumb**s comment (now deleted). Drank last night.

 

[theway109]

Has anyone used a shooting

i agree that a half inch vs 1.5" really makes no difference for deer hunting. had i had 1.5" as my largest 3 shot i probably would have picked one and called it a day. ive honestly never seen such a big change in group size from the bottom of the charge range to the top. at 68 3 shots were right at 5". What were you able to achieve consistantly from the 300nm by doing the ladder? as i said i've never been successful with the ladder method and there is a large number of folks out there that agree it isn't effective a large percentage of time. I may give it another go when i decide to commit the time to finding a 180g load.

I would tend to think the 5" group is the shooter and not the load, especially after shooting many rounds of a magnum. (I'm not trying to say anything about your skill. That **** is hard on your body.)

I do want to be clear about the "ladder" though. I'm not looking for nodes, flat spots, groups, or anything other than making sure the charge doesn't have pressure signs.

I didn't shoot many groups at paper(this is primarily a long range steel shooter), but when I did they were all under 3/4". Even the ladder group over 6 grains of powder was under an inch.

 

[twinin]

As long as I'm getting acceptable velocity, I would still prefer a .5" vs 1.5" load even for hunting. Still want to make an ethical shot over 300 yards if needed.

 

[Akajun]

I just got done developing 3 loads for a 338 win mag, over 200 rds fired.
I use a wearable PAST shoulder pad that is wider than the butt and it is the single best thing to help with recoil.
I also never fired more than 50 rds a day but more like 25 and in 5 rd groups then let the barrel cool, rotate another rifle out,

another thing i did was install a good effective muzzlebreak from Mussle Breaks and More and mount my scope way forward.
I find most people mount their scopes too far back while they are in a standing position. But when they sit at a bench or in prone, the scope is to close making you push the rifle away/ not tuck it fully in your shoulder which increases felt recoil, makes for a crappy NPA/position, and poor accuracy

mount your scope as far forward as you can, dont worry about the " ill be wearing a heavy jacket" nonsense. its better to stretch your neck forward than pull it back, plus most hunting shots from sitting in a stand or prone will put your head forward.

 

[sksshooter]

I just got done developing 3 loads for a 338 win mag, over 200 rds fired.
I use a wearable PAST shoulder pad that is wider than the butt and it is the single best thing to help with recoil.
I also never fired more than 50 rds a day but more like 25 and in 5 rd groups then let the barrel cool, rotate another rifle out,

another thing i did was install a good effective muzzlebreak from Mussle Breaks and More and mount my scope way forward.
I find most people mount their scopes too far back while they are in a standing position. But when they sit at a bench or in prone, the scope is to close making you push the rifle away/ not tuck it fully in your shoulder which increases felt recoil, makes for a crappy NPA/position, and poor accuracy

mount your scope as far forward as you can, dont worry about the " ill be wearing a heavy jacket" nonsense. its better to stretch your neck forward than pull it back, plus most hunting shots from sitting in a stand or prone will put your head forward.

Thanks, i wondered if those did any good. i'll have to pick one up and give it a try.

i loaded up 10 rds of the most promising load and 10 each of .5 grains above and below. shot 5 rds of the first load and let the barrel cool. when i picked the rifle back up something felt loose. upon further inspection i found my base screws had started backing out and gave just a slight wiggle to the scope base... i've never used thread locker on any mounting screws to date and never had issues. everything was torqued to spec when installed so i was suprised. i guess i will have to throw some loctite on this one and re-torque everything. i really wish i knew when it lost torque. i was pretty suprised at how much it opened up at the higher end of the charge weight so that may have been my issue. from everything i've read and seen with my 270wsm the wsm's tend to prefer closer to the max charge so i guess i'll be starting over.