List of gun owners in the US?

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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    145   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    8,010
    83
    Hammond, Louisiana
    I’ve had this conversation with quite a few gun owners over the years and I’m still surprised by what many believe and what they don’t. It’s my belief that the US government has been attempting to compile a list of gun owners since the 90’s, when background checks became law. Many people say that there’s no way they can do that because of laws protecting citizens and yada yada. When the law part of the discussion arises I always ask about wiretapping laws and all the evidence that has surfaced over the years as to government agencies collecting all that we do on cell phones and computers. I’m amazed at the number of gun list doubters that also believe the government does indeed collect our electronic communications. So I’m wondering why anyone thinks the feds would break wiretapping and privacy laws regarding the entire populous and not compile information on firearms purchases and owners? It has come up here a time or two and I get the same reaction from a number of members. I’m just wondering if anyone is that naive or is it just that hard to believe our government could actually do anything of the sort.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2020/02/un..._6f6fac3eaa-70cb3e97b7-22032915#axzz6EyKmFZWA
     

    RaleighReloader

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   0
    Jan 30, 2015
    1,134
    48
    Baton Rouge, LA
    The conspiracy theorist in me says that yes, the government absolutely wants to have a list of gun owners. Anyone with a pulse should know that there are well-funded elements in our society that absolutely want to turn the second amendment into a narrowly prescribed privilege. Look at the palpable excitement in Beto O'Rourke's eyes when he talked about confiscating weapons ... that should be a wake-up call for anyone that values freedom.

    The problem is in the details. The government probably knows that I own guns, but which guns? There's absolutely no way to prove that I gun I bought on a 4473 last week, last month, or last year is still in my possession. That's part of why it's essential to resist universal background checks; that creates an administrative burden on gun owners to prove that they lawfully possess their guns, and not the other way around.

    Some years ago Canada instituted a long gun registry. As one might reasonably predict, it was a spectacular bureaucratic failure that solved zero crimes and cost the government (and the a public) an ungodly sum of money. When the long gun registry was eventually scrapped, gun owners promptly started trading with one another to make the existing records useless. That was part of why the records were eventually destroyed (or, at least, the government claims to have destroyed them).

    It's easy to move into tin foil hat territory when we're talking about this. My advice is that we keep pushing back on universal background checks for this very reason: there is no good reason why the government needs to have detailed records of who owns what.

    Mike
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
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    a location near you
    I’ve had this conversation with quite a few gun owners over the years and I’m still surprised by what many believe and what they don’t. It’s my belief that the US government has been attempting to compile a list of gun owners since the 90’s, when background checks became law. Many people say that there’s no way they can do that because of laws protecting citizens and yada yada. When the law part of the discussion arises I always ask about wiretapping laws and all the evidence that has surfaced over the years as to government agencies collecting all that we do on cell phones and computers. I’m amazed at the number of gun list doubters that also believe the government does indeed collect our electronic communications. So I’m wondering why anyone thinks the feds would break wiretapping and privacy laws regarding the entire populous and not compile information on firearms purchases and owners? It has come up here a time or two and I get the same reaction from a number of members. I’m just wondering if anyone is that naive or is it just that hard to believe our government could actually do anything of the sort.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2020/02/un..._6f6fac3eaa-70cb3e97b7-22032915#axzz6EyKmFZWA

    Well my default position for years has been ‘well there are laws that prevent’ but you make a valid point. A list of ‘proceeds’ could be covertly collected from NICS similarly to what the NSA surveillance scandals.

    Now I don’t know how NICS is structured but one reason the NSA got away with spying and likely continues is because the analysts and agents are bound by law to secrecy, and doing the right thing in some cases would be treason. Maybe NICS is the same way, I don’t know.

    But I do know that NICS doesn’t know if I’m buying a 22lr revolver or an AR pistol. And they don’t know if I backed out of the purchase either.

    Honestly at this point it’s a little late for me if there is a list, so now my goal is to continue to strive for electing strong pro-2A politicians, and giving weak sauce RINO’s hell.
     

    machinedrummer

    Well-Known Member
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    2   0   0
    Apr 5, 2010
    3,168
    63
    Kingwood, Tx
    Some shops are paperless now. I wonder how that info is stored and or transferred? Privacy, just like true political choice is just an illusion. They all hang out in the same treehouse and continue to pass laws to remove power from the people.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    145   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    8,010
    83
    Hammond, Louisiana
    Would it be too far a stretch to presume that the info on what firearms you buy can indeed be stored? For instance, you visit a retailer, get a background check, use a card of some sort to make the purchase once you’ve been cleared and go home with your new gun. Does anyone believe the item description on the credit or debit record will be so generic as to be unidentifiable as the firearm you purchased? Does anyone here really believe that info is not readily available to any agency at all? Same goes for online sales. It’s already been established that certain banking institutions are attempting to interfere with firearms sales in more ways than one, they already share/sell the info on what you purchase...and you agreed to it at some point. So, anybody putting two and two together here? It’s cool if you don’t care.
    Can’t say I’m surprised at some of the replies. I’ll just let folks wonder why I care. Just passing on info.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
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    a location near you
    Would it be too far a stretch to presume that the info on what firearms you buy can indeed be stored? For instance, you visit a retailer, get a background check, use a card of some sort to make the purchase once you’ve been cleared and go home with your new gun. Does anyone believe the item description on the credit or debit record will be so generic as to be unidentifiable as the firearm you purchased? Does anyone here really believe that info is not readily available to any agency at all? Same goes for online sales. It’s already been established that certain banking institutions are attempting to interfere with firearms sales in more ways than one, they already share/sell the info on what you purchase...and you agreed to it at some point. So, anybody putting two and two together here? It’s cool if you don’t care.
    Can’t say I’m surprised at some of the replies. I’ll just let folks wonder why I care. Just passing on info.

    I’ll bite. It depends on where and how you purchase as to weather or not your credit card company has a breakdown on your purchases. It has a great bit to do with who you buy from. If it’s a store credit card you can’t bet your sweet @ss the credit card receipt it detailed out.

    Its up to dealers who use an electronic databases to protect your data. Will they get hacked at some point? maybe. But it’s in their best interest to protect your data from theft. Because if they lost it the ATF would most certainly no be pleased, so in effort to protect from data losses they would most assuredly have to protect from a breach in general. It’s possible that they would still get breached. State sponsored hacking is still a major problem and so is hacking for profit.

    You can’t worry about everything because then you would need to worry about what you forgot to worry about. I’m not making light of your concerns by any means just saying if this is a top concern you may want to re-prioritize them.
     

    Gator 45/70

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    31   0   0
    I’ve had this conversation with quite a few gun owners over the years and I’m still surprised by what many believe and what they don’t. It’s my belief that the US government has been attempting to compile a list of gun owners since the 90’s, when background checks became law. Many people say that there’s no way they can do that because of laws protecting citizens and yada yada. When the law part of the discussion arises I always ask about wiretapping laws and all the evidence that has surfaced over the years as to government agencies collecting all that we do on cell phones and computers. I’m amazed at the number of gun list doubters that also believe the government does indeed collect our electronic communications. So I’m wondering why anyone thinks the feds would break wiretapping and privacy laws regarding the entire populous and not compile information on firearms purchases and owners? It has come up here a time or two and I get the same reaction from a number of members. I’m just wondering if anyone is that naive or is it just that hard to believe our government could actually do anything of the sort.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2020/02/un..._6f6fac3eaa-70cb3e97b7-22032915#axzz6EyKmFZWA

    .Gov simply does what it wants to do,Rights be Damned,They can and will wiretap someone if they want to,BUT !!! They are aware they cannot introduce this into court.

    The case will be thrown out,Same as these cell phone tracking stations listen in on your conversations,Can't admit they are doing this,It too will be thrown out of court.

    The good news is they have people on here taking names and serial numbers......
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
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    a location near you
    Top concern? Above what? Did I run through screaming about the sky falling while I was out? What?

    If not a top tier concern for you where would you rank it. Personally it ranks down the list pretty far for me.

    If it exists it’s a little too late for me to worry if I’m on it, because if it exists I’m certainly on it. The next question is, if it does exist and I’m on it and knew it existed what would I do? Would I change my current lifestyle to not make the list so many times or find a way to get off of it? Would I seek methods covert or overt to destroy the list? How could I convince the rest of gun owners that it’s real and that it needs to be destroyed?

    My point is it’s a rabbit hole. If it exists it’s in defiance on federal law, and there is really no point in fighting unless you can prove it and then force the government to comply with its own laws. I’m a little more interested in heart disease and plaque buildup in my arteries than this list because it’s much likelier to claim me as a victim, and at least I can do something about that.

    Again I really wouldn’t doubt it if crdible sources said it were real, but what then?
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    145   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    8,010
    83
    Hammond, Louisiana
    If not a top tier concern for you where would you rank it. Personally it ranks down the list pretty far for me.

    If it exists it’s a little too late for me to worry if I’m on it, because if it exists I’m certainly on it. The next question is, if it does exist and I’m on it and knew it existed what would I do? Would I change my current lifestyle to not make the list so many times or find a way to get off of it? Would I seek methods covert or overt to destroy the list? How could I convince the rest of gun owners that it’s real and that it needs to be destroyed?

    My point is it’s a rabbit hole. If it exists it’s in defiance on federal law, and there is really no point in fighting unless you can prove it and then force the government to comply with its own laws. I’m a little more interested in heart disease and plaque buildup in my arteries than this list because it’s much likelier to claim me as a victim, and at least I can do something about that.

    Again I really wouldn’t doubt it if crdible sources said it were real, but what then?

    Why even reply to this thread?
     
    Last edited:

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
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    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
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    a location near you
    Why even reply to this thread?

    Because your theory is plausible, but my question to you is if you believe it to be the case what do you propose we do?

    Unlike a few who have insinuated this is some wacko conspiracy theory, I believe it could be happening, but I’m not sure how you or I could do anything to expose or stop it.
     
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