Zimmerman ~ NOT Guilty

Renegade · Jul 14, 2013

dfsutton said:
Here's a post I made to facebook. I was hoping it might get through to some of the libtard friends/family I have, but I doubt it'll do much good:

At the crux of this trial, is that fact that even though George Zimmerman made some mistakes that created a bad situation, that did not strip him of his right to defend himself. Just as a women who makes mistakes in social settings is not stripped of her right to avoid sexual assault/rape. That being said, it is a terrible thing when anyone loses their life, and I feel horrible for the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. I can only hope that this case can serve as an example to those who carry firearms for their defense. May we realize the seriousness of our actions and the need to act judiciously while carrying.

That is awesome!

True, he should have stayed in his vehicle... but, just as a drunk girl in a miniskirt doesn't deserve to be raped, he didn't deserve to be violently attacked.

I'm sorry, but if I'm on the bottom of a ground-and-pound, with my life and visions of my wife & children passing before my eyes, I'm shooting my way out if I can.

Zman should never have followed what he thought to be a thug, cuz he was right! Thugs are dangerous, they might attack. Normal people don't attack when questioned by neighborhood watchmen.

returningliberty · Jul 14, 2013

I personally don't think neighborhood watch members should be driving around patrolling their gated communities. That's what a trained (and insured) security service is for.

I Certainly don't think they should be following dudes, even if they are being suspicious and looking into windows.

I don't think zimmerman's over zealousness was appropriate. I'm not sure Anyone would. That being said, it certainly wasn't criminal. It was just stupid.

The person who obviously committed a criminal act was Martin, who it seems Reasonably certain ambushed Zimmerman.

As for the injuries, the perception of the extent of the injuries is more important than their actual seriousness. If the attack would put a reasonable person in fear of the "death or great bodily harm" thing, what Z did was justifiable. The jury agreed, I agreed from the beginning as did most people I talked to.

I understand how you feel, but I think calling it a bad shoot is going too far. It was a preventable shoot, but it's not the victim's responsibility to prevent it. He definitely could have, and should have, but he didn't Have to.

Renegade · Jul 14, 2013

Cat said:
I asked myself how I would feel if my husband followed an unknown individual in such a way that intimidated him. And I'd be pretty upset.

Of course you would, it was a bone-headed move. But, once he made that mistake and was getting his retaliatory beat-down, wouldn't you be even more upset if he just lay there and not try to prevent great bodily injury/death???

JNieman · Jul 14, 2013

Cat said:
I asked myself how I would feel if my husband followed an unknown individual in such a way that intimidated him. And I'd be pretty upset. One of my first lessons was not to make someone's argument my own. This boy wasn't actively seen in the commission of a crime. He wasn't raping a woman, kidnapping a child or beating up a senior citizen. George didn't see this kid do anything that required putting himself into a situation that provoked Martin into severely beating him, which resulted in self defense.

I don't think Martin deserved to die doing what he was doing. Yes I think he was a thug. Yes I believe he was well on his way to becoming an incarcerated thug. But at 17 especially, alive is better than dead. He made the choice to attack with great prejudice but Zimmerman should have never got that close or turned his back to a questionable suspect.

I don't think GZ woke up that day intending on doing any of those things that happened. But they did happen. As I said, he is not guilty ut he is not innocent either.

3fifty7 nailed it. z should have kept his ass in the vehicle. To me it was a bad shoot because none of it had to happen had Z just made the call and sat quietly watching the kid from a distance/waiting for the cops.

So basically you went with 'feelings' based on cherry-picked ideas that ignored many facts, and stuck with the "but he was just a young boy" defense. Gotcha.

JNieman · Jul 14, 2013

Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with Zimmerman keeping eyes on the kid as he reported position to the dispatcher? Isn't that what cops have always told people? Don't get involved, just be a good witness and report about it later?

On top of that, I'd rather a neighbor than a security guard be patrolling the neighborhood. There's no insurance that matters at all, that I can think of, so that's moot. A security guard on a golf cart or economy car is going to cost the HOA money and raise rates for everyone. The security guard, by my experience, isn't going to look for anything, fall asleep on the job, or sit around with headphones in, oblivious to the world, so you're paying for nothing. A neighbor has a vested in the safety of the community and the training could be as much as a phone call or meeting with an officer at the police station, and it'd be just as good as anything a private security guard gets.

Cat · Jul 14, 2013

JNieman said:
So basically you went with 'feelings' based on cherry-picked ideas that ignored many facts, and stuck with the "but he was just a young boy" defense. Gotcha.

Not arguing. I was asked my opinion. I gave it. Think what you will.

But. I never said Martin was innocent either. I said he didn't have to die. BIG difference. Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle. Martin shouldn't have given a beat down that required deadly force.

Neither should have had to do what they did.

Cat · Jul 14, 2013

rocketsteve said:
The same could also be said that if Martin had hauled ass to his father's girlfriend's house when he realized he was being followed. But rather than do that, he turned around and confronted Zimmerman. In my opinion, neither of these individuals exercised good judgement and share equal responsibility for what transpired...

You're right.

I don't see anyone here, who believes Zimmerman made mistakes, also saying Martin was just a simple kid strolling along the neighborhood.

Both f---k'd up. One is dead. Another is looking at several years of consequences.

Cat · Jul 14, 2013

returningliberty said:
I understand how you feel, but I think calling it a bad shoot is going too far. It was a preventable shoot, but it's not the victim's responsibility to prevent it. He definitely could have, and should have, but he didn't Have to.

Semantics. Bad, preventable, irresponsible.... Boils down to mistakes.

doc ace · Jul 14, 2013

I'd rather someone I know of their character personally patrol/watch my neighborhood who have a self vested interest in our welbeing as a community instead of a security guard. I know plenty of civilians trained in former lives that have better training than those security cats.

I know 90% of anyone and everyone in my neighborhood, vehicles, and their routines. I know if someone shouldn't be there or if something is out of place. Just like the late teens girl sitting on the my street corner in the dark by the stop sign texting on her cell at 12:00am last night when I got off work. I recognize her, asked her if she was okay, she was waiting on her friend, and all was well.

I would have maintained a visual on the individual until LEO arrived or I got an accurate discription address and direction of travel. Judge me how you want.

returningliberty · Jul 14, 2013

Not judging you at all. I just think a uniformed security guard who actually does is job is more effective as a deterrent. I understand your reasoning though, that's why lots companies use Boards of Directors with people who actually own a substantial amount of stock. Interest is a powerful motivator.

jmcrawf1 · Jul 14, 2013

returningliberty said:
I personally don't think neighborhood watch members should be driving around patrolling their gated communities. That's what a trained (and insured) security service is for.

I Certainly don't think they should be following dudes, even if they are being suspicious and looking into windows.

I don't think zimmerman's over zealousness was appropriate. I'm not sure Anyone would. That being said, it certainly wasn't criminal. It was just stupid.

The person who obviously committed a criminal act was Martin, who it seems Reasonably certain ambushed Zimmerman.

As for the injuries, the perception of the extent of the injuries is more important than their actual seriousness. If the attack would put a reasonable person in fear of the "death or great bodily harm" thing, what Z did was justifiable. The jury agreed, I agreed from the beginning as did most people I talked to.

I understand how you feel, but I think calling it a bad shoot is going too far. It was a preventable shoot, but it's not the victim's responsibility to prevent it. He definitely could have, and should have, but he didn't Have to.

What's the difference between Zimmerman patrolling his neighborhood and a police dept blessing a guy with a badge and calling him a reserve officer. Both are untrained.

If you were in law enforcement for any length of time or actually worked a large volume of cases, you would know that the vast number of property crimes are solved solely on tips, witnesses, etc. Little is left on a smash and grab in the way of physical evidence. There may be the occasional DNA hit but that's usually not the case. When there is a rash of burglaries, vandalisms, etc in an area, police depts routinely seek out help from citizens and neighborhood watch groups for tips.

blackwater26504 · Jul 14, 2013

Can we all just move on from terrible incident please.

Dishonored · Jul 14, 2013

I don't understand the whole security company stuff. I know one person on my gf's family that works it on a car lot in BR. He is a bafoon and lord knows he "trained." He is also a reserve in Livingston...

Other than that, the John Michael Montgomery concert they had 3 guys working under a security company there. 2 ran nylon gun show holster and one serpa. I will take a passionate neighborhood watch guy over an iTough
Cocky security guard. We have 2 subdivisions within 3 miles of me and are neighborhood watch communities. Never any crime, I also know a lot of people in those that walk their dogs and are always armed.

Vermiform · Jul 14, 2013

JNieman said:
Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with Zimmerman keeping eyes on the kid as he reported position to the dispatcher? Isn't that what cops have always told people? Don't get involved, just be a good witness and report about it later?

On top of that, I'd rather a neighbor than a security guard be patrolling the neighborhood. There's no insurance that matters at all, that I can think of, so that's moot. A security guard on a golf cart or economy car is going to cost the HOA money and raise rates for everyone. The security guard, by my experience, isn't going to look for anything, fall asleep on the job, or sit around with headphones in, oblivious to the world, so you're paying for nothing. A neighbor has a vested in the safety of the community and the training could be as much as a phone call or meeting with an officer at the police station, and it'd be just as good as anything a private security guard gets.

I'm with you 100%. If we are to believe George Zimmerman (and he has given us ZERO CAUSE NOT TO), he was following at a distance so he could make a good witness when the cops showed up. The only mistake he made was taking his eyes off of him or in the case that he lost him, he should have never stopped looking behind him when he was walking back to the car. When Trayvon confronted him, it was too late! Trayvon had already closed the distance.

Trayvon: "Why you following me?!?!?!"

Zimmerman caught off guard and playing mental catch up: "WTF are you talking about?"

and then he was on him.........

Hitman · Jul 14, 2013

Cat said:
This boy wasn't actively seen in the commission of a crime. He wasn't raping a woman, kidnapping a child or beating up a senior citizen.

But Trayvon was
standing in the rain,
in the grass/yard of a house that George had called the PD about before for being broke into and next to a house that had been broke into multiple times.
TM wasn't jogging/exercising,
he wasn't just causally walking on a sidewalk
and he wasn't acting like he wanted to get out of the rain.
He was standing in the yard of a house that looking towards it when GZ first saw him.
Just so happen to be a previous call in house.

I don't think people try and see what GZ saw enough.

If you watch the entire walk through you will REALLY get a much better perspective for what was going on in GZ's mind that night.

Of course you also have to understand that you will not remember things exactly as they happen. in a High Stress situation, few people ever do. Details and fine time lines just don't get logged that way in our brains when you are fighting for your life. The root of it will, but High Stress Adrenaline Fueled situations usually block out SOME memory capacity. Just think about that as you listen and watch all the way through.

I think it could clear up some things I'm seeing repeated here.

Coonie · Jul 14, 2013

Zimmerman left his vehicle because he lost sight of the individual. He got out to find an address to direct the police to. Once confronted he deflated, because he wasn't fully mall ninja trained, and the conflict escalated.

Would I do the same? especially after recently burglaries, probably. Would Trayvon back-track on my 6'4" frame in the dark and give me friction? who knows. I only speculate because I can't fathom the behavior of Trayvon.

I suppose that if the prosecution can speculate that they knew Zimmerman had evil in his heart, I can speculate that Trayvon had burglary tools and stolen items in his house and that burglaries only started after he moved to the area.

Maybe that's why he back-tracked to stop the CAC from pointing out his dwelling and having police pressure come down on him. !?! I don't know, I'm just guessing.

blackwater26504 · Jul 14, 2013

This is going to give more wannabe cops more fuel to go get in trouble. As a former LEO we have rules and standards to follow. None of which z was taught nor trained in. Sorry to offend other but, you don't really learn crap in these CCW classes. He had his day in court and it is what it is.

The state needs to fire those two lawyers for depending on just race to prosecute someone defending themselves in messed up situation.

Better to judged by 6 than carried by 12.

That's my tangent I'm done with this whole situation. I hope you all stay safe other.

JNieman · Jul 14, 2013

The rules and standards a cop is taught are not entirely relevant to nonLEO anyways. The rules/standards are not the same.

blackwater26504 · Jul 14, 2013

JNieman said:
The rules and standards a cop is taught are not entirely relevant to nonLEO anyways. The rules/standards are not the same.

So running around without any type of training is ok? I think not. Basic laws on probable cause should be taught, if your going to try an follow someone you think is a suspect in a crime.

At the time z followed m no life or property were in harms way. So what gave him the right to pursuit or even investigate the suspected person?

Could it have been that m taught it was another homie trying to harm him that night? If he was a thug that wouldn't be hard to understand that someone who try and harm him. Due to black and black crime happening daily.

Coonie · Jul 14, 2013

blackwater26504 said:
At the time z followed m no life or property were in harms way. So what gave him the right to pursuit or even investigate the suspected person?

I assume you're assuming that Z was actually investigating T, or attempting to pursue?

I think Z was just getting locations for the police, that he called and was expecting to arrive. I think Z was just observing and never had any intention to confront T. Did he have an obligation to stay in his vehicle? Or did he feel an obligation to the police to have a location that T was last seen, to help police find out what's really going on?

Isn't one of the first questions police ask when going to a suspicious person call is' "Which way did he go?" Z was just trying to get the "Which Way." part right.

Zimmerman ~ NOT Guilty

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