21 handguns stolen

[bsoileau24]

Yesterday they had several glocks,1 m&p 9 a beretta 92 ,xd and some lower end stuff
Everyone in there today is very pissed to say the least

 

[Robbie]

Ya, they missed the sale.

 

[#1bambam]

I'm curious if Jims or Bass Pro or Cabela's locks up all their inventory every day? I know I don't. My HK45c has beenin my truck for months.

Good thing its a HK.If it were a good gun it would prolly been gone by now.Just sayin.LOL

 

[meplatgroup]

Maybe I'm missing something?
With having gone through the ATF'S process of getting our FFL, The first question from them on there recent visit was....
Do you have a safe? YES
Remember to always lock it up. OKAY

Not to mention insurance, ATF, local police and such, having to explain why.

While I don't doubt the ATF asked you this, there is no legal requirement or regulation regarding the placement of firearms in a safe. Period. The ATF IOI who did my meeting could not have cared less where or how I stored the guns. He did spend a lot of time going over the paperwork you have to fill out if you have a firearm stolen.

Further, 90% of the safes on the market are pure crap and can be defeated in minutes. If these guys had enough time and privacy to cut through a wall they would have gotten into any safe. Most larger retailers and distributors have vaults or have simply hardened their building to make burglary more difficult but everyone in the industry knows nothing is burglar proof. That is why you have insurance.

To call these people stupid without having in depth personal knowledge of their security systems and processes is quite frankly an ignorant thing to do.

 

[Jack]

While I don't doubt the ATF asked you this, there is no legal requirement or regulation regarding the placement of firearms in a safe. Period. The ATF IOI who did my meeting could not have cared less where or how I stored the guns. He did spend a lot of time going over the paperwork you have to fill out if you have a firearm stolen.

Further, 90% of the safes on the market are pure crap and can be defeated in minutes. If these guys had enough time and privacy to cut through a wall they would have gotten into any safe. Most larger retailers and distributors have vaults or have simply hardened their building to make burglary more difficult but everyone in the industry knows nothing is burglar proof. That is why you have insurance.

To call these people stupid without having in depth personal knowledge of their security systems and processes is quite frankly an ignorant thing to do.

You can call it an ignorant thing if you'd like, but I install security systems for a living. A cheap system with a couple of 360 motion detectors, cell back up and a safe would've stopped this from happening and would've cost(including the safe) under $3,000.

An except from the ATF webpage detailing exactly what happened here via there FAQ.

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-3317-2.pdf

Evaluate the walls and ceilings. In many instances of theft, criminals have ignored doors and windows and cut through adjoining walls or the ceiling to gain access. In some cases, the wall next to the doorway was simply pushed through. Poorly protected adjoining businesses also provide an easy entry point for criminals who choose to go through unreinforced walls. This form of entry may have a second unintended negative effect in that it may avoid triggering the alarm system. A common precaution is the installation of floor to ceiling steel mesh in the gun vault and in exterior walls. If circumstances warrant it, consider moving to a more secure building.

Obtain an alarm system. There is no logical justification for a firearms business to be unalarmed. Most alarm companies will evaluate your needs and make recommendations at no cost. A simple system is far less expensive than the cost of replacing inventory. Many States require an alarm system on specific types of businesses, particularly firearms dealers. Are you in compliance with State and local law on your alarm system and other security requirements?

Evaluate your existing alarm system. Is it sufficient for the nature and size of your business? Are all points of entry protected? Do you have, or need, a panic button? Tamper alarm? Cellular backup (cellular backup is considered an industry standard to protect during power failures and/or if power/phone lines are cut)? Have you tested the system on a regular basis? Who is on the call list and are the phone numbers correct and current? Have you met with the local authorities to agree on protocols when the alarm is tripped? Have you had a series of apparent false alarms? If so, is the problem in the system, or is your response procedure being studied by a savvy criminal?

 

[Robbie]

While I respect your opinion, I STAND BY MY FIRST POST!
OOPS - FORGOT TO ADD, YES ALLLLLL OF OUR STUFF GOES IN THE SAFE.

While I don't doubt the ATF asked you this, there is no legal requirement or regulation regarding the placement of firearms in a safe. Period. The ATF IOI who did my meeting could not have cared less where or how I stored the guns. He did spend a lot of time going over the paperwork you have to fill out if you have a firearm stolen.

Further, 90% of the safes on the market are pure crap and can be defeated in minutes. If these guys had enough time and privacy to cut through a wall they would have gotten into any safe. Most larger retailers and distributors have vaults or have simply hardened their building to make burglary more difficult but everyone in the industry knows nothing is burglar proof. That is why you have insurance.

To call these people stupid without having in depth personal knowledge of their security systems and processes is quite frankly an ignorant thing to do.

 

[Robbie]

.

 

[meplatgroup]

You can call it an ignorant thing if you'd like, but I install security systems for a living. A cheap system with a couple of 360 motion detectors, cell back up and a safe would've stopped this from happening and would've cost(including the safe) under $3,000.

An except from the ATF webpage detailing exactly what happened here via there FAQ.

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-3317-2.pdf

How do we know they didn't have an alarm system? After investigating burglaries as a cop and someone who has performed tons of research on alarm systems and has multiple layers of alarm systems on his business, I know my stuff. Although we aren't going to discuss it here, you and I both know there are ways to get around every system and/or buy enough time to get in and out.

While I respect your opinion, I STAND BY MY FIRST POST!
OOPS - FORGOT TO ADD, YES ALLLLLL OF OUR STUFF GOES IN THE SAFE.

I'm glad you secure your firearms, but there are a lot of dealers who leave stuff in their cases and it's still more protected than in your safe in your house because their entire building is built as a vault. It's all about slowing them down and getting the cops there.

 

[themcfarland]

Sorry for your loss, OP




Kenny, Which safe is worth it? and have you guys listened to police dispatchers lately? They are not really in a hurry to get to alarm calls.

 

[meplatgroup]

Kenny, Which safe is worth it? and have you guys listened to police dispatchers lately? They are not really in a hurry to get to alarm calls.

Tons of info on YouTube and web, but issues are that some have thick doors but thin walls and the other huge thing is the number/length/diameter of the door bolts. Where you put the safe how it is bolted down (if it isn't it's close to worthless) are also really important.

 

[Jack]

How do we know they didn't have an alarm system? After investigating burglaries as a cop and someone who has performed tons of research on alarm systems and has multiple layers of alarm systems on his business, I know my stuff. Although we aren't going to discuss it here, you and I both know there are ways to get around every system and/or buy enough time to get in and out.

Where did I say they didn't have one? I would assume though, if they did, the possible hours for the robbery wouldn't have been between 9pm and 1am. Since you know what I'm talking about I'll just say that the purpose of the alarm is to limit loss and start the response timer, which is why secondary hard protection should be used also, like a safe.

I'm glad you secure your firearms, but there are a lot of dealers who leave stuff in their cases and it's still more protected than in your safe in your house because their entire building is built as a vault. It's all about slowing them down and getting the cops there.

You're absolutely right, which is why I said

Depends on the building. The big thing in nola is breaking into a vacant building that adjoins an occupied one, then come through the Sheetrock. If its only them in a concrete or brick building I see your point, if its vynil siding that I could bust through in 30 seconds with a hammer I think the safe would've helped. This is the criminals fault, but its also stupid and lazy that enabled this.

In post #15. I would be willing to bet this place isn't built like a vault, but instead is either wood constructed or has vynil/tin siding. I don't know this for a fact, however I'm sure someone here does, my personal hunch is a steel structure with tin siding. I believe this to be the case because the name suggests they are more of an industrial supply shop than a gun dealer. My point is that guns left in a glass case in an easily entered building isn't slowing anyone down.

 

[bsoileau24]

It is a steel structure with metal like any metal building or shop they cut a hole through the tin wall with a sawzall is what i was told by the owner

 

[Robbie]

Seriously, that sucks.
Now I understand why they were able to cut the building and smash the glass.

 

[oldman45]

Heck, I keep my loose guns at my house in safes. I also have a security system with every window & door pinned and motion detectors in every room. Cameras are in five places.

I would hate to think what I would have for security if I owned a gun store

 

[Jack]

my personal hunch is a steel structure with tin siding. I believe this to be the case because the name suggests they are more of an industrial supply shop than a gun store

It is a steel structure with metal like any metal building or shop they cut a hole through the tin wall with a sawzall is what i was told by the owner

Yep, it's about as effective as using a tin can to stop people from getting to food.

 

[Hitman]

There is brick at the bottom and sheet metal on the top half of the wall. I don't remember what it looked like on the inside.

Front Door;
http://goo.gl/maps/f7PWs

South West side/rear. (There is NO brick on the bottom half)
http://goo.gl/maps/kvRU4

On the rear pic. It looks like they could have just kicked in the window unit.

 

[Praesul Presul]

The question is...is it mandated that FFLs lock up their entire inventory every night? I didn't think so but I'm curious.

Not around here but I have been in some gun stores out of state that there is no way possible the inventory could all be secured every night at closing. I will guess if your store is structurally sound and reinforced at entry points with a monitored alarm system the ATFE is cool.

 

[carlosd321]

Not around here but I have been in some gun stores out of state that there is no way possible the inventory could all be secured every night at closing. I will guess if your store is structurally sound and reinforced at entry points with a monitored alarm system the ATFE is cool.

My agent told me that the weapons had to be secured with a chamber or trigger lock. He said there was not a safe requirement, unless I misunderstood him. My stuff is in a safe with my personal arms but its pretty cramped.

 

[bsoileau24]

An arrest was made and eight pistols were recovered. They believe another five people were involved.


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[03protege]

An arrest was made and eight pistols were recovered. They believe another five people were involved.


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Well that is good, hopefully they are able to recover all the guns.