80 percent manufacturer files for TRO against ATF

[Bill Baldwin]

They said either give us these 5000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do

No word if ATF has requested names of customers who purchased pressure cookers from Sears.

Story

 

[George]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Tro does not extend to government entities.

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[Bill Baldwin]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Tro does not extend to government entities.

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Temporary restraining order granted. source and

 

[George]

Ive seen those oersonally fail!

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[Lokin4AReason]

this should set an example for the rest to follow ... IMO

 

[Bill Baldwin]

Ive seen those oersonally fail!

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ATF still has an opportunity to have the TRO overturned. Apparently the ATF believes that the plastic 80% lowers were first made into actual lowers and then the fire control pocket is filled. According to the manufacturer, the core that fills the fire control is made first, then the rest of the receiver is built around that. I guess the durability of the TRO stands with the manufacturer convincing a judge that the core is made first.

 

[Bill Baldwin]

TRO Failed to stop raid.

 

[CEHollier]

Pressure cookers from Sears. WTF?

 

[LACamper]

Knowing what was about to happen, you would think Ares Arms would have removed the customer list from the store rather than turn them over to ATF. Or at least added so many bogus entries that it would keep ATF busy for months.

 

[jcbvh]

EP didnt send one thier lowers to get a determination letter from the ATF.

I read this on another forum.

Looks like this whole thing could have been avoided.

 

[Jasarii]

So Judge grants TRO against ATF...then ATF conducts raid anyway...why am I not surprised.

 

[JR1572]

So Judge grants TRO against ATF...then ATF conducts raid anyway...why am I not surprised.

A raid?

Sounds like they conducted a search warrant. Search warrants written by federal agents are signed by federal judges. Sounds legal to me...

JR1572

 

[Nomad.2nd]

A raid?

Sounds like they conducted a search warrant. Search warrants written by federal agents are signed by federal judges. Sounds legal to me...

JR1572

Source?

Because that's not what I'm seeing.

 

[JR1572]

Source?

Because that's not what I'm seeing.

I made that statement without any source other than my law enforcement experience.

I just used google and found this:

http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/

Wow. Look how that happened.

JR1572

 

[Nomad.2nd]

I made that statement without any source other than my law enforcement experience.

I just used google and found this:

http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/

Wow. Look how that happened.

JR1572

Yes. That's what they were STOPPED from doing just the other day....

They judge shop and get one to say its Ok while another restraining order is in force.... And you consider this ledgit?!
-scuse me, legal!?!

They are in violation of the restraining order.... (and wouldnt that be contempt too?) Pretty sure thats a crime/ NOT legal Unless its been rescinded... Which your link makes NO mention of, and what I'm asking about.
(not that they won't get away with it)


So like I said....
Source?
Because that's not what I'm seeing...

 

[Vermiform]

What's the difference between a raid and executing a search warrant?

 

[Nomad.2nd]

http://www.examiner.com/article/atf...legal-gun-sales-response-to-restraining-order

If this is accurate:

The ATF has been told they CANNOT do what they want to do (invade and take thenames of the buyers)
So they decide to take the judicial branch of governments job over and "decide" (unconstitutionally and illegally) that what was happening the day before the restraining order is now a crime.... And to decide that this means they can ignore the judicial restraining order. (and coincidently the names are per The restraining order there and waiting for them... Those who are above the law.

So (again, assuming is is correct)

I'm wondering what part of that sounds legal?!?

Get away with it: without a doubt.
Legal: not seeing it

Edit:
More (unconfirmed) wonder if this (allegations of illegal actions on the part of the ATF) is true:
http://weaselzippers.us/179529-brea...r-files-despite-restraining-order-from-judge/

 

[Nomad.2nd]

What's the difference between a raid and executing a search warrant?

The search warrant has a judges signature... There's a burden of proof. At minimum someone swears they witnessed something illegal and can (Saposidly) be held accountable if it's false, and the judge can be held accountable if it's fradulent. (in a perfect world)

The restraining order allowed raids.... Let's say they are doing something to endanger the public, chasing a criminal (in hot pursuit) making bombs, etc.

Soooo (see my last post) the ATF "decided" (which is the judicial branches purvue) a crime was occurring.... Which is outside their legal ability... But who questiones the men with the machineguns...

 

[JR1572]

Yes. That's what they were STOPPED from doing just the other day....

They judge shop and get one to say its Ok while another restraining order is in force.... And you consider this ledgit?!
-scuse me, legal!?!

They are in violation of the restraining order.... (and wouldnt that be contempt too?) Pretty sure thats a crime/ NOT legal Unless its been rescinded... Which your link makes NO mention of.
(not that they won't get away with it)


So like I said....
Source?
Because that's not what I'm seeing...

Did you click on that link?

If you did there is a picture that was taken from the Owner of Ares' Instagram account which was his statement saying the ATF was executing a search warrant at their locations.

A TRO cannot stop a search warrant once it's endorsed. If that was the case every criminal would be filing TROs against LE agencies. I don't know what judge signed it, but if it's the same judge that signed the TRO that would be great.

Are you aware of the process that's involved with obtaining a search warrant? I'll explain it to you. First you fill out an application. That application contains the facts and circumstances about the case you're investigation and you outline where you're going and what you're looking for as it relates to your investigation. The judge reads that, and then signs it. Then you present the judge with the warrant. They sign that after they read and sign the application. On the back of the actual warrant, there is what's called a return. On the return, you inventory what you take from that location and leave one copy with the person at the structure you just finished searching. Sometimes I would give it to the arrested person and have it logged in their property at the jail, but not all search warrants result in an arrest.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Also, your spelling is atrocious.

You accusing them of judge shopping is pretty reckless.

Look, I know it's cool to hate the government here, but sometimes y'all's imaginations are completely out of control...

JR1572

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Did you click on that link?

If you did there is a picture that was taken from the Owner of Ares' Instagram account which was his statement saying the ATF was executing a search warrant at their locations.

A TRO cannot stop a search warrant once it's endorsed. If that was the case every criminal would be filing TROs against LE agencies. I don't know what judge signed it, but if it's the same judge that signed the TRO that would be great.

Are you aware of the process that's involved with obtaining a search warrant? I'll explain it to you. First you fill out an application. That application contains the facts and circumstances about the case you're investigation and you outline where you're going and what you're looking for as it relates to your investigation. The judge reads that, and then signs it. Then you present the judge with the warrant. They sign that after they read and sign the application. On the back of the actual warrant, there is what's called a return. On the return, you inventory what you take from that location and leave one copy with the person at the structure you just finished searching. Sometimes I would give it to the arrested person and have it logged in their property at the jail, but not all search warrants result in an arrest.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Also, your spelling is atrocious.

You accusing them of judge shopping is pretty reckless.

Look, I know it's cool to hate the government here, but sometimes y'all's imaginations are completely out of control...

JR1572

Reckless?

Do you mean like "Fast and Furious reckless"
Or do you mean as in "refusing an order to testify to congress" reckless?!

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...-official-pleads-the-fifth-refuses-to-testify

Hate: no, I've actually liked all the ATF agents I've met. One offered me a job at the technical branch with him. (perhaps I should of taken it)

Aware: yes.


Just like I'm aware my spelling is atrocious.... Hooked on fonix/public schools didn't work for me. iPad doesn't help, and don't really care. Bout what I expected from you though....

The search warrant I was aware of, as I detailed (although in less detail) in previous posts.