9mm Ammo question

[deuxlatch]

The only dumb question is the one not asked, so here goes: What is the difference between 9mm Luger and 9mm NATO rounds? I have a friend who gave me a box of NATO because he said he couldn't shoot it out of his gun because it only took Luger. Any truth to this? I have a Ruger LC9 so I'm wondering if I can shoot both out of it. Upon side-by-side comparison there seems to be no difference to my untrained eye.

 

[JNieman]

Maximum pressure specs:
SAAMI 9mm = 35,000 PSI
SAAMI 9mm +P = 38,500 PSI
NATO 9mm = 36,550 PSI

If your gun isn't ok to shoot 9mm +P I'd probably stay "better safe than sorry" and not shoot NATO, but that's me.

 

[deuxlatch]

Thanks. That helps. Now I just gotta research my gun to find out what kinda food it likes.

 

[GLOCKCRAZZ]

The 9x19mm Parabellum was designed by George Luger.

All the same thing.
9x19mm Parabellum
9mm Para
9mm Luger
9mm NATO.

+P loads are high pressure load.




Sent from the Bayou Custom Sheaths workbench.

 

[JNieman]

The 9x19mm Parabellum was designed by George Luger.

All the same thing.
9x19mm Parabellum
9mm Para
9mm Luger
9mm NATO.

+P loads are high pressure load.

9mm NATO is not the same thing as Luger/Para

 

[BeerManNOLA]

I believe Ruger pistols are +P compliant, but check your owners manual. I had to check my SR1911 just because I was curious, and the responses I saw seemed boilerplate for all Ruger pistols. However, *you* need to be sure as it's your handgun.

 

[Labadie]

Good description on the differences at this link below

http://www.gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/

 

[JBP55]

I have factory 9mm FMJ ball ammunition rated as listed below.
At or below 35,000 PSI.
Some at 36,500 PSI.
Some at 38,500 PSI.

 

[Sin-ster]

Ugh, I KNOW somebody didn't link Caleb's site to this thread...

Some things not mentioned, though not 100% consistent across all ammo LABELED as 9mm NATO:

1) Crimped primer pockets.

Some will tell you this is to counter the higher pressures; wrong, it can actually be worse when the primer flows. Truth is, it's for use in sub-guns and to prevent issues during rough handling of packaged ammo.

Not a concern unless you're reloading, and don't have a 1050...

2) Thicker brass.

Truth-ish. Most European brass makers don't skimp like we do, and it does effect case capacity and subsequent pressures. WIN makes our stateside, commercially available (on shelves) NATO here, and indeed their cases are .001-.002 thicker on the regular-- even the non-stamped stuff, from time to time.

Again, no concern if you're not reloading.

3) Wear and tear, or dangerous in the gun?

Meh. You're not gonna shoot enough, period, even if every round you ever fed the thing was NATO or similarly specced.

Dangerous in the gun? It had damn well better not be. Domestic plinking ammo (think WWB) fluctuates so much in velocity from lot to lot (box to box and round to round even) that you are getting some high pressures on the regular anyway.

Truth is, even crappy 9mm cases can stand up to a LOT more pressure than these NATO rounds are producing. They have SERIOUS webs; ask anyone running 9mm Major Open guns, which make SAAMI specs look like pellet gun figures.

Now, you probably won't have a fully supported chamber like they do... But still. The guns SHOULD be overbuilt enough to handle a REAL pressure spike, as per a hot factory round that's been set back a little, or a temp sensitive powder in the worst case climate. A few hundred NATO rounds should not pose a risk in all modern guns.

Problems with a steady diet? If that's the case with your gun, I'd think about replacing it. Glock, M&P, XD, HK, CZ, Tanfoglio-- even the mass recalled Caracal ALL ship over sprung-- presumably BECAUSE of NATO and +p rounds, and also for the sake of reliability in adverse conditions. (I'd assume Ruger does the same.) if your gun isn't, and the frame, slide, rails, grooves, etc take such a beating from NATO-spec ammo... It's probably not one you wanna shoot much of ANYTHING through in the first place.


So there you have it. Barring a real piece of junk or old antique, you're not gonna run into issues in the short term. And to reiterate-- you simply won't shoot enough of it to hurt the gun, even if your owner's manual warns against "high volumes" of +p. (Notice they won't stipulate a real number-- because it's in the mid-10s of thousands range, and results of them saving weight and cost in the final product.)

 

[deuxlatch]

Thanks for all the input, very informative. I researched my LC9 to find out I can actually shoot +P out of it but they don't recommend to do it very often, but it will cycle both NATO and Luger all day long, so I'm good.

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

I believe that 9mm NATO is strictly 124grn.

 

[Sin-ster]

I believe that 9mm NATO is strictly 124grn.

Also true. And real NATO stamped stuff uses the same projectile.

Stuff RATED as 9mm NATO may vary. Some of it is even plated...

 

[TomW]

I will only add that I have seen some NATO labeled stuff jacketed differently, some even labeled as "armor piercing" so be careful where you shoot that stuff!