Another Sig P320 Injury.

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  • JBP55

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    Slatowski was issued a P320 as his service weapon to use as a deportation officer for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Pennsylvania.

    On Sept. 21, 2020, Slatowski was conducting his required, quarterly firearms training in New Castle, Delaware, according to the lawsuit. While on the firing line, he was instructed to draw and fire two rounds at the target.

    When Slatowski "placed his hand on the pistol grip to draw it out of his holster, the weapon fired," according to the lawsuit.
    "Slatowski never touched the weapon's trigger," the suit alleges. "The bullet struck him in his upper right hip and exited out the back of his lower thigh, causing substantial injury, maceration of tissue, blood loss, and nerve damage."

    Bagnell described Slatowski as "an exemplary, highly trained public employee, former Marine, husband and father of four, who is lucky to be alive," according to the news release.
    Slatowski is suing Sig Sauer for "negligence, strict products liability, breach of express warranty, breach of implied warranty, and negligent and intentional infliction of emotional distress in view of Sig's misrepresentations about the safety of the weapon," the lawsuit states.

    "To this day I'm shocked that a firearms manufacturer would design, build and sell a lethal weapon knowing it could fire without the most highly trained soldier, agent, or civilian ever touching the trigger," Slatowski said in the release.

    His attorneys say he is presently unavailable for media interviews, according to the release.
    Sig Sauer spokesman Michael Marotte told Military.com that the New Hampshire-based gun company is not prepared to comment on the lawsuit at this time.

    This is not the first lawsuit brought against Sig Sauer over the P320. Last March, Sig agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit that required the company to reimburse owners of the P320 pistol who paid for repairs or upgrades to prevent an alleged safety glitch, which could cause the weapon to fire accidentally.
    The class-action suit claimed that P320 pistols made before Aug. 8, 2017, do not include a mechanical disconnector, a feature that blocks the pistol's ability to fire when the slide and barrel are in an unlocked condition.
    Sig Sauer's free Voluntary Upgrade Program, offered to anyone who purchased the pistol before Aug. 8, 2017, includes the new disconnector feature, company officials have said.

    Slatowski's lawsuit argues that the P320 design "possessed an inadequate sear-striker connection, even after implementing a 'voluntary upgrade' program for the gun; an inadequate internal striker safety; and lacked any external safety or tabbed trigger safety," the lawsuit states.
    In addition to Slatowski's case, the lawsuit argues that the P320's alleged flaw has resulted in approximately 28 accidental discharge incidents involving law enforcement officers. Approximately 15 of those have resulted in injuries, according to the lawsuit.

    The Army's new Modular Handgun System -- which is being adopted by all of the services -- features an upgraded design over the original P320 and has "passed the U.S. Army's testing protocols," according to Sig officials.
     

    DAVE_M

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    I’m curious what the culprit is this time.

    The prior incident was caused by a modified holster made for a different firearm.
     

    Magdump

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    I have an older 226 and a 228 and love them. Bought a couple of 938 pistols a couple years ago. I stayed away from the newer poly framed sigs for some reason. I sure would hate to have something like that happen to me.
     

    Martman300

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    Hey Guys,

    I know you see more of this than me.

    what do you think of a newer 12/2018 P320 with a m/s? Safety wise, I know most hate the m/s, but I see it as a newer 1911 basically. Striker trigger is like a 1911, ready to fire.

    just seeing all this, with pistols magically firing secured in the holster, etc. makes me wonder.

    My Glocks I trust, the P320, I shoot great, just don’t know it would be an EDC.
     

    JBP55

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    Hey Guys,

    I know you see more of this than me.

    what do you think of a newer 12/2018 P320 with a m/s? Safety wise, I know most hate the m/s, but I see it as a newer 1911 basically. Striker trigger is like a 1911, ready to fire.

    just seeing all this, with pistols magically firing secured in the holster, etc. makes me wonder.

    My Glocks I trust, the P320, I shoot great, just don’t know it would be an EDC.

    Sig could improve the P320 by making a larger P365 trigger assembly for the P320 pistols.
     

    Xeon64

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    This is why I hate striker fire pistols. Give me double action single action any day. Not walking around with a pistol that is always cocked. Why I choose CZ 75s, sig p220, and older Smith semi's.
     

    DAVE_M

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    This is why I hate striker fire pistols. Give me double action single action any day. Not walking around with a pistol that is always cocked. Why I choose CZ 75s, sig p220, and older Smith semi's.

    Not all Striker fired pistols have preloaded strikers.
     

    JBP55

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    This is why I hate striker fire pistols. Give me double action single action any day. Not walking around with a pistol that is always cocked. Why I choose CZ 75s, sig p220, and older Smith semi's.

    You are in the minority. The best selling pistols in 2021 are striker fired
     

    Xeon64

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    Most people who buy new pistols have no idea what they are buying. Striker fire/polymer pistols are cheaper to make. So when you average consumer wants a 9mm they are going to grab the $300 Shield over the $1200 double action Sig. Glock and MP types shoot great and are reliable but I would never stick one near my body with a round in the chamber. Same goes for a 1911 cocked and locked. Not going near me.

    Maybe I am overly cautious because I was taught gun safety from my father who accidentally shot himself with a pistol. His learn from mistakes caution might have been transferred to me.
     

    JBP55

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    Most people who buy new pistols have no idea what they are buying. Striker fire/polymer pistols are cheaper to make. So when you average consumer wants a 9mm they are going to grab the $300 Shield over the $1200 double action Sig. Glock and MP types shoot great and are reliable but I would never stick one near my body with a round in the chamber. Same goes for a 1911 cocked and locked. Not going near me.

    Maybe I am overly cautious because I was taught gun safety from my father who accidentally shot himself with a pistol. His learn from mistakes caution might have been transferred to me.

    If I am in the shower or in bed sleeping I have a striker fired pistol within reach and have one on me at any other time and have done so for many years.
     

    honestlou

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    I’m curious what the culprit is this time.

    The prior incident was caused by a modified holster made for a different firearm.

    I believe that in the incident to which you were referring the discharge came as the gun was being holstered, as in the trigger was pressed back as the gun was forced downwards.

    In this case he reports the gun fired as he placed his hand on the gun, which was already holstered. I suppose a holster problem could still be the cause, if the gun wasn't fully in the holster and got pushed further when he obtained his grip. BUT, I'm still betting on his finger pulling the trigger as he started his draw.
     

    MOTOR51

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    I’m noticing none of these incidents happen without someone’s hand on the gun. Are there any reports of one firing while laying on a night stand?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    RaleighReloader

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    Striker pins don't magically move past trigger bars. Either there's a defective part in the gun (which an examination by a qualified armorer would quickly reveal), or the trigger was somehow manipulated. The operator may not have intended to manipulate the trigger, but I'm betting dollars to donuts that he did.

    Still, it seems to be all the rage to go to court and blame everyone else these days.

    Mike
     

    Martman300

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    Pre-loaded striker

    Not all Striker fired pistols have preloaded strikers.
    From my understanding is that Glock is not fully loaded, but partially loaded, and the pulling of the trigger completes the *cocking* of the striker and ultimately releases it at the break.

    i think the Kahr, & Taurus Operate the same way, vs. a Sig P320 which is fully cocked. Among many others of course.

    Thinking the Hellcat is as well, not sure, as I have never disassembled one. (Fully loaded) Why I got the 43X over the Hellcat. Glock reliability and S15 mags too, along with the longer grip just felt better. The Striker thing was my deciding factor.

    Am I right on this?
     
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    DAVE_M

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    From my understanding is that Glock is not fully loaded, but partially loaded, and the pulling of the trigger completes the *cocking* of the striker and ultimately releases it at the break.

    i think the Kahr, & Taurus Operate the same way, vs. a Sig P320 which is fully cocked. Among many others of course.

    Thinking the Hellcat is as well, not sure, as I have never disassembled one.

    Am I right on this?

    No.

    There is no *cocking* on a Glock. Unlike striker fired pistol which have sears, Glock strikers rest on the striker safety block (plunger). It’s at a resting position and cannot fire unless the striker block is moved. As you pull the trigger, there is some slack. When the slack is removed, the trigger bar begins to engage the striker block, pushing it upwards. At the same time, the trigger bar is beginning the push the striker rearward, compressing the striker spring. When the trigger is pulled to the *wall* it has reached the end of its travel and when pulled through the break, the trigger bar drops and clears the striker allowing the pistol to fire.

    On an M&P, the striker is preloaded and engaged on a sear. As the trigger is pulled, the trigger bar begins to engage the striker block. When it reaches a certain point, the sear drops out of the way and allows the striker to pass and firing the pistol.

    Both are safe. Neither will fire when dropped. You MUST pull the trigger for them to fire.
     

    DAVE_M

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    When Slatowski "placed his hand on the pistol grip to draw it out of his holster, the weapon fired," according to the lawsuit.

    It's possible and obstruction was in the holster and it was not fully seated in the holster. Safariland ALS holsters lock into the ejection port, but there is some wiggle room. If it was not fully seated and there was an obstruction, it could have had the trigger to the rear far enough that any movement would fire it. Alternatively, there is a high possibility this was an ND by the shooter placing his finger on the trigger as he drew and ultimately shot himself.

    As far as the Canadian incident goes, it was a big stink over someone using the wrong holster.

    NEWINGTON, N.H., (February 5, 2021) – SIG SAUER is working with Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) to resolve an incident involving the unintended discharge of a P320. An inaccurate and incomplete report of this incident was recently published in the Canadian media that called into question the safety of the P320. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements.

    The firearm involved has been extensively tested by SIG SAUER and it has been determined to be safe. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a P320. The use of a modified P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.

    The SIG SAUER P320 is among the most rigorously vetted pistols in the market. The P320 meets and exceeds all US safety standards and global military and law enforcement protocols, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), and Department of Justice (DOJ). The P320 is one of the most innovative and sought-after pistols in the firearms market, and the pistol of choice for all branches of the United States Military (M17/M18), along with numerous law enforcement agencies and other military units worldwide.
     

    Xeon64

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    Triggers are easy to accidentally pull. Esp buy untrained people and still easy by people who have experience. My father shot himself holstering a Dan Wesson 357 with a 3.5 lb double action. Was putting it in the holster and it got hooked on the holster strap and BAM! Don't like the idea of "Just don't touch the trigger" It is like walking around with a gun off safety. The safest is a heavy manual first pull then single action there after for a pistol. Some of the double single actions are 14lb on the manual pull. Does not matter in self defense since the target is usually less than 10 feet away.
     

    Magdump

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    This is why I hate striker fire pistols. Give me double action single action any day. Not walking around with a pistol that is always cocked. Why I choose CZ 75s, sig p220, and older Smith semi's.

    More of mine are hammer fired as well. I favor the FNX9 over the 509, I don’t own a striker fired Sig, the only pistols I own without safeties are Glocks and now I’m finding out safeties don’t matter in many pistols when it comes to problems with them firing on the drop or without a pull of the trigger. I prefer exposed hammer pistols as well. And what pistol was that dancing FBI fool packing? Do we know he pulled the trigger? Maybe here nor there but this thread made me think about it.
    Do people prefer striker fired over hammer fired? Or is it that more of those are produced and sold? Cheaper perhaps? Easier to operate? None of that influences my purchases, but I’m sure it influences other folks. I can honestly say that regardless of the true reason this event occurred, it occurred. And that’s enough reason for me to not want a 320. There are too many other equal and better pistols out there for me to worry about one that I don’t trust.
    Even if it’s just a risky predisposition for user error, as in the self shootings with Glocks. They’ve happened to law enforcement on a few occasions and it always seems to be dependent on something touching that trigger. Carrying a Glock everyday would force me to carry in a way that I’m not accustomed and do not feel comfortable, which is without a round in the chamber. Every person on this forum can say that those discharges and injuries were 100% due to user error and shake their head and say that the victims were just inept and careless and that would never happen to me, until they shoot themselves in the nut sack. Then the narrative will change to that trigger and no safety being the culprit. Think about it. We’ve all seen the videos or heard the stories. Do you think those LEO Glock fans felt the same way about a Glock after they were shot? I bet they all spouted off about booger hook control and common sense til the bullet hit the bone, huh. And what about that trigger safety? No way the gun could possibly discharge until you have your finger on the trigger and intend to fire... or attempt to holster the gun, or wear the wrong clothing, or get in a hurry with your seatbelt, or scramble to pick your gun up off the dance floor.
    At the end of the day it doesn’t matter to me what the root cause of this or the other stated unintended discharge was, but that it happened and can happen. That’s enough for me to write off the 320.
     
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