Are cops 'frienemies' of the Constitution?

[Nolacopusmc]

I thought this was a very interesting read and agree with it 100%

http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/2867411-Are-cops-frienemies-of-the-Constitution/

Are cops 'frienemies' of the Constitution?
The person’s fundamental desire — and Constitutional right — to be left alone must be balanced against an officer’s responsibility — and mission— to interdict crime

Justice Brandeis made a famous dissent in the 1928 case Omstead v. United States in which he stated, “The makers of our Constitution undertook to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness. They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by civilized men. To protect that right, every unjustifiable intrusion by the Government upon the privacy of the individual, whatever the means employed, must be deemed a violation of the Fourth Amendment.”

The Fundamental Right to be Left Alone
I am an armed government agent. The specter of the Revolutionaries’ hated Redcoats walks with me. I am the very image against which the Bill of Rights was argued. I walk the streets a living and visible threat to freedom. I solemnly swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, but the reality of my work seems quite the opposite.

Life? Liberty? The pursuit of happiness? I have the power to immediately bring an end to any or all of those to each person I pass. Of course I am in a noble profession. I help, I save, I uphold the law. But look at me! I have a gun, pepper spray, handcuffs, and a baton — hardly equipment one might imagine of a person whom the statute labels a “peace” officer.

The police officer holds the power to restrain, and criminals have the power to bring fear and disorder to our world. Resting on the shoulders of every officer is the responsibility to balance that power to stop, question, search, and detain a person with people’s fundamental desire — and Constitutional right — to be left alone to conduct their lives. Therefore, one theory of policing would hold that officers should tread as lightly as possible with discretion favoring self-restraint. The other says that since the courts and legislatures allow encroachments on liberty we should push those to the limits for the greater good of finding criminal activity.

In other words, the great question of freedom is whether our ability to discover criminal activity at the risk of liberty is the greater good over our ability to give citizens the greatest latitude in going about their day without our intrusion therefore inevitably allowing evil to go undiscovered.

The True Guardians of Liberty
Although the citizen in the glare of a police officer’s spotlight might well consider that we are their greatest threat to liberty, I would argue that this title belongs more accurately with our elected leaders. Our limits as police officers are defined by them. What they demand is what we do and what they allow is what we do. When we get orders to write more tickets, knowing full well that it is revenue driven rather than public safety driven, our Constitution suffers. When more and more personal responsibility laws are passed and pressed onto the shoulders of law enforcement — yes, I know that lives are saved by helmets, seat belts, and no-smoking regulations — freedom suffers. When our armed government agents begin to be seen less as crime fighters and more as nannies and tax collectors, our credibility suffers.

Those of us carrying the badge must be vigilant of our own understanding of the element of freedom Justice Brandies recognized. But for the larger goal of the kinds of freedoms that were sought by our founders the answer is not for the police to shirk their lawful responsibilities, nor is it on the courts to arbitrarily nitpick at our honest efforts at interdicting crime. It is in the power of the people to hold their legislators accountable and stop allowing the law to replace our God-given common sense as America’s moral absolute.

 

[Yrdawg]

So.......I guess you are saying ridin round in a cool cop car with all kinds of cool cop gear while talkin all kindza cool cop radio hoo hah ...this ain't all the fun it looks like ??

Always thought I'd like to be a cop, never tried it...too old now, but I still like to help others when I can and smash thugs in what ever form they appear, and I DO like to be left alone

I liked readin this

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I choose to do what I do so don't cry me no tears and I don't need your sympathy but The Job is far far harder than most people realize. Especially for the real Meat Eaters among us. Sua Sponte.

 

[Bayoupiper]

That's exactly what it means. I retired before I was really ready to, for two reasons...

1. The Orleans Parish district attorney at the time was a white-hating, racist bastard. I was about to have to take my turn at that ******** LSP "task force" presence down there. And if I had to let the air out of some non-swimming thug, I did not want to face probable indictment.

2. The gun grab during Katrina scared me badly, in that most of the cops ordered to do it did in fact do it without a blink. Never mind that a lot of them were from northern areas... plenty of local boys participated.

Number one was the deciding factor; I had already made up my mind to refuse an order to confiscate guns in general (particularly after Nagin said he'd do it again, to hell with any law to the contrary). But I have seen the Orleans Parish "justice sytem" at work. I have never had any use for that FUBAR place; still don't.

The young cops today who "get it" are facing a true dilemma; the above missive in the OP describes them. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them to make a difference- as in refuse to carry out orders against the constitution. Far, far too many will be more than happy to oblige their masters.

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Hey some of us told them to go pound sand when they ordered the gun grab.



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[rebelray84]

Great article and some excellent points.

I would never participate in seizing guns legally held by honest citizens no matter who gave the order.I would,in fact,consider it an illegal order and one not to be followed.If they fired me,so be it.

 

[posse comatosis]

t is in the power of the people to hold their legislators accountable

Great in theory, NOLACOP, but rare in practice. Last week's rout of the Democrats being an exception. At the local and state level, once restrictive laws are passed, they tend to stick on The People. There can be no perfect compromise freedom and police interdiction of crime and criminals. Patrick Henry expressed it best, "Give me liberty, or give me death." But I would note that in America, the current balance between the two is the most palatable blend to be found anywhere on Earth.

 

[Yrdawg]

No gun grabbrs....WOW, thats cool stuff rite there...I have argued that military would do what was necessary to disarm citizens if given the order, it makes me feel good to hear you guys tell 'em to jammit

I'm hopeful that the military has people like ya'll, in the end it probably won't matter but it's good to know anyway

 

[louis488]

LEO's are just like any other cross section of the population. Very good to very bad and every thing in between.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

LEO's are just like any other cross section of the population. Very good to very bad and every thing in between.

Exactly.

 

[Puddle Pirate]

No gun grabbrs....WOW, thats cool stuff rite there...I have argued that military would do what was necessary to disarm citizens if given the order, it makes me feel good to hear you guys tell 'em to jammit

I'm hopeful that the military has people like ya'll, in the end it probably won't matter but it's good to know anyway

I and many others swore an oath:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Any military member worth their salt should know that above all, they first swore to support and defend the constitution. When asked "what if" I always refer to the constitution.

 

[posse comatosis]

I and many others swore an oath

In one ear and out the other with some.

 

[Bayoupiper]

In one ear and out the other with some.

Once again, it doesn't matter what anyone on here says.

Your mind is closed tighter than a nun's corset!





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[TerryK]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

 

[posse comatosis]

I and many others swore an oath:

Read that oath and one can see why the U.S. military will be the primary stabilizing unifying national force if the country ever plunges into civil disorder, and not the cops. You'll notice it didn't begin to straighten out down there until the military arrived in the form of the National Guard.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Read that oath and one can see why the U.S. military will be the primary stabilizing unifying national force if the country ever plunges into civil disorder, and not the cops. You'll notice it didn't begin to straighten out down there until the military arrived in the form of the National Guard.

LOL.

Yet again you have no idea what you are talking about.

First off, how does the oath tell what will happen in the future based off of your ascertion of past events. That is retarded but not surprising coming from you.

We had more problems with the military than we had with most other people.


Yes, they helped, but it was more of a manpower issues than a military did a better job than LEO issue. If we could have materialized half as many LEO from the general area, we would have gotten the job done faster and more effectively.

Not all, but some....
Military had no idea where things and places were.
Military had no idea about law enforcement functions
Military beat the **** out of people.
Military stole from peoples homes...several times.
Military was very ill-equipped for the mission they were tasked with.
Military had no ammunition when I was getting shot at.
Military sometimes caused more issues than they solved.


The military served as eyes and ears and bodies when we needed to show force. Once they settled in and started performing in a completely law enforcement capacity, complete with state issued crown vics, radios, and arrest powers, there were some growing pains. Once settled in, they were a greater presence which help in some deterrance and observation.

The problem as I experienced it was that 18-20 year olds were doing their 14 day AT in NOLA, so they had no real time there to learn and many viewed it as play time for cops and robbers. Most were not even actual military MP's, so they had absolutely no concept of law enforcement procedures. On a couple of occassions, a few of them were almost killed and opthers were almost arrested for going even further into the abyss than even NOPD.

 

[SirIsaacNewton]

I liked the article but it did have an undertone of batman. You know the hero that is constantly plagued by his responsibility/evil tendencies.

Nolacop kinda like the Dark Knight but with no mask, more training, and freakishly thorough understanding of CCW law. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ5r3oNFVeE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ5r3oNFVeE[/ame]

 

[dos gris]

The young cops today who "get it" are facing a true dilemma; the above missive in the OP describes them. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them to make a difference- as in refuse to carry out orders against the constitution. Far, far too many will be more than happy to oblige their masters.

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You are one state too far to the east my friend. You earned, and I hope you are enjoying your retirement. Well done.

 

[leVieux]

Don't the LSP come to Mardi Gras for the purpose of protecting citizens from the NOPD?

N'est-ce pas?

leVieux

 

[Bayoupiper]

Nah... LSP comes to Mardi Gras because all the NOPD guys take vacation and work $100-an-hour details, so SOMEBODY has to be around to arrest the drunks and other other assholes who carpet the area.

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Wait, I thought that was OUR job!



Of course, I'm just there for the boobs!









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[Bayoupiper]

Read that oath and one can see why the U.S. military will be the primary stabilizing unifying national force if the country ever plunges into civil disorder, and not the cops. You'll notice it didn't begin to straighten out down there until the military arrived in the form of the National Guard.

Didn't work out for you the first time around so you change your tune?






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