Car Jacking??

[Saftman]

OK, need some professinal input here. Exactly what is the law in Louisiana concerning Car Jacking/attempted Car Jacking? There have been several attempts and 1 sucessfull one here in Lafayette lately. I know a law was passed a couple years ago allowing deadly force, but I have never heard specifics. Does anyone have a condensed version? Example: As soon as someone opens or trys to open your vehicle door do you have the right to shoot? Do they have to physically assult you before you shoot? Any input/info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Craig

 

[spanky]

They have to be illegally entering or attempting to illegally enter while the vehicle is occupied.

 

[homeslice]

If you can floor it to get out of there, I would highly suggest you do so. If you're stuck in traffic with no other alternative, yes.

 

[Saftman]

Thanks for the quick replys. Flooring it is allmost out of the question in Lafayette traffic most of the time. This happened to the spouse of my wife's boss a few weeks ago. She was in her Suburban w/ 2 kids in car seats when someone got out of the car behind her and tried to open both doors on the Driver's side of the vehicle. Things are really going downhill around here in the past year or so.

 

[kdick3]

So what happens if your doors are locked and their going for the door handle? I mean.... technically they're not entering your vehicle because they can't physically do that. But who's to say they don't have a gun or baseball bat or something?

That happened to a friend of mine in highschool stopped at a red light behind a couple people. Some bg came up to his car and started trying to open his door. My friend couldn't go anywhere because he was in traffic and the bg kept banging on his window and yelling at him to get out of his car. He had to sit there until the light turned green and the people in front of him moved.

If that guy had a gun my friend would have been dead... And you never know who has a gun until they start shooting. So what to do in that situation?

 

[spanky]

So what happens if your doors are locked and their going for the door handle? I mean.... technically they're not entering your vehicle because they can't physically do that. But who's to say they don't have a gun or baseball bat or something?

That happened to a friend of mine in highschool stopped at a red light behind a couple people. Some bg came up to his car and started trying to open his door. My friend couldn't go anywhere because he was in traffic and the bg kept banging on his window and yelling at him to get out of his car. He had to sit there until the light turned green and the people in front of him moved.

If that guy had a gun my friend would have been dead... And you never know who has a gun until they start shooting. So what to do in that situation?

"Entering or attempting to enter"

Use your best judgment. Should you shoot through the window if they try to open a locked door? Maybe, maybe not. It is dependent on the situation imo.

 

[homeslice]

Slowly put on your earmuffs, and eye protection. Load one cartridge in the chamber slowly while the perp watches. And see if he sticks around. LOL

 

[Gumbo]

I was carjacked at gunpoint here in downtown Lafayette a couple of years ago. I was entering my vehicle with some friends when two guys approached me and caught me off guard, gun was in the center console, guy drew on me before I even realized what was happening. Wasn't worth getting shot over so I let them take the car, but the detective handling my case told me had I reached my sidearm, I would have been within my rights to gun them down in the parking lot, but whether or not that was because I felt my life was in danger or because they were committing a carjacking, I'm not sure.

On a different, but similar note, I've often wondered what I would do if for whatever reason, some crazy guy got out of his car in traffic and started beating on my car or trying to break the window to get at me. I suppose I would wait up to that point where he rears back to try and bust out my or a passenger's window before I would open fire through the window. Beat the body all you want, I'll get your license and sue your ass, but if you start coming through the window at me or someone else in my car, my oh my.

 

[crewdawg]

Slowly put on your earmuffs, and eye protection. Load one cartridge in the chamber slowly while the perp watches. And see if he sticks around. LOL

+1

 

[Nolacopusmc]

There is no crime that you can justifiably kill some over simply for the sake of committing said crime. The critical element is that you must be in reasonable fear of your life or in defense of someone else's life in order to use force up to and including lethal force. This could be during a carjacking or running a stop sign.


This is your source for all questions concerning Louisiana Law of Any kind. http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/tsrssearch.htm

LA RS 14:18-Justifiable http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78335
LA RS 14:19-Use of Force or Violence in defense http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78336
LA RS 14:20- Justifiable Homicide. http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338
LA RS 14:21- Agressor Cannot claim Self-defense http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78348
LA RS 14:22- Defense of Others http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78358

 

[spanky]

There is no crime that you can justifiably kill some over simply for the sake of committing said crime. The critical element is that you must be in reasonable fear of your life or in defense of someone else's life in order to use force up to and including lethal force. This could be during a carjacking or running a stop sign.


This is your source for all questions concerning Louisiana Law of Any kind. http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/tsrssearch.htm

LA RS 14:18-Justifiable http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78335
LA RS 14:19-Use of Force or Violence in defense http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78336
LA RS 14:20- Justifiable Homicide. http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338
LA RS 14:21- Agressor Cannot claim Self-defense http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78348
LA RS 14:22- Defense of Others http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78358

RS 14:20
§20. Justifiable homicide
A. A homicide is justifiable:
(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle.

That provision (the one the OP is asking about) has nothing to do with reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.

 

[flamatrix99]

In my CHP class, Gordon Hutchinson gave us the GENERAL example of someone banging on your car trying to get in. If they are outside the car then you couldnt shoot and be justified but once they break the glass then they are fair game.

 

[oleheat]

Gumbo: "On a different, but similar note, I've often wondered what I would do if for whatever reason, some crazy guy got out of his car in traffic and started beating on my car or trying to break the window to get at me. I suppose I would wait up to that point where he rears back to try and bust out my or a passenger's window before I would open fire through the window. Beat the body all you want, I'll get your license and sue your ass, but if you start coming through the window at me or someone else in my car, my oh my."


I saw a guy do this in bad traffic a few years ago on Airline Hwy in Baton Rouge....Call it road-rage, I guess, because this man was out of control. He got into an arguement with a guy behind him 3 cars in front of me. He jumped out of his vehicle- just as traffic started to move- and attempted to call the other guy out. Just standing in the middle of the road in rush hour traffic! I mean, this was a large guy & he was going absolutely NUTS. He was holding up traffic so I stuck my hand out the window & motioned for him to "c'mon, man move along"...He flared up at me and started cussing me out threatened to "drag me out & stomp my ass" as he started in my direction. So here I am, blocked in, with a nutjob on my case. I'm not kidding- he was like a rabid dog. I smiled and issued a not too subtle warning- loudly- to him NOT to approach my truck. Strangely enough, he stopped in his tracks, turned around(cussing the entire time), and burned rubber. I can only think he thought better of the overall situation- not to mention this was around the same time the "shoot the carjacker" legistlation was enacted- and regained his composure. I'm glad he did, for all our sakes....I'm sure if he hadn't it would have been a huge mess I wouldn't want to deal with, but at the moment, there was no way in hell I was dealing with a madman.

 

[oleheat]

But Spanky's right, they must be attempting to enter the vehicle with bad intensions. If you smoke someone at your front bumper that didn't have a gun but yelled at you, I'm sure you'll be the subject of a new thread on here, and that ain't good.

 

[Pacioli]

Thanks for the quick replys. Flooring it is allmost out of the question in Lafayette traffic most of the time. This happened to the spouse of my wife's boss a few weeks ago. She was in her Suburban w/ 2 kids in car seats when someone got out of the car behind her and tried to open both doors on the Driver's side of the vehicle. Things are really going downhill around here in the past year or so.

Is this the same one that had the email going around Lafayette? A school teacher?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

RS 14:20
§20. Justifiable homicide
A. A homicide is justifiable:
(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle.

That provision (the one the OP is asking about) has nothing to do with reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.

Once again my little grasshoppers, you cannot pick apart the statute to only the parts that you like. the statute must be read in it's entirety. Spanky, while in regards to that subsectio, the mere unlawful and forceful entry is enough to negate the need to retreat, there must still be a threat. If someone breaks into your home and passes out on the living room floor, you cannot shoot him just because he entered. He is not posing a threat.

read a little further down of the same statute:

B. For the purposes of this Section, there shall be a presumption that a person lawfully inside a dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle held a reasonable belief that the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent unlawful entry thereto, or to compel an unlawful intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle, if both of the following occur:[/B]

(1) The person against whom deadly force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

(2) The person who used deadly force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring or had occurred.

C. A person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and who is in a place where he or she has a right to be shall have no duty to retreat before using deadly force as provided for in this Section, and may stand his or her ground and meet force with force.

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.


Subsection D. removes the necessity to retreat as a consideration for the jury "read castle doctrine" but makes reference to the need to recognize a threat of great bodily harm "or" unlawful entry.


You are correct that the wording does not specifically state it. But when you look at the statutes surrounding the use of force, one would be hard pressed to convince a jury that you shot someone just because they entered, and did not pose a physical threat.


SSSooooooo, in a way you are right, but would not advise shooting unless an "ARTICULABLE" (meaning you can convince a jury) threat to you or others existed.

 

[spanky]

I think you missed a part, grasshoppa...

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.

Also, it says "OR prevent unlawful entry."

There is nothing that states that you have to be in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm if someone has or is attempting to illegally enter an inhabited dwelling, business or vehicle...

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I think you missed a part, grasshoppa...

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.

Also, it says "OR prevent unlawful entry."

There is nothing that states that you have to be in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm if someone has or is attempting to illegally enter an inhabited dwelling, business or vehicle...

I conceded that. The part you bolded is telling the jury that the good guy did not have to retreat.

Are you suggesting that you can shoot someone for just entering your house?

If I pick the lock, walk two steps in and sit on your floor, with no weapons, could you shoot me? What if the door was unlocked?

What if you told me to get out, and I did nothing other than ignore you?

COuld you shoot me based on the statutes listed below?

 

[spanky]

If someone opens your car door and sits in the passenger seat, can you?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

If someone opens your car door and sits in the passenger seat, can you?

If the door is unlocked, and they do nothing but sit, I would say no. I know that sounds crazy, and not saying I would take that course of action, but a jury would not see that as a threat and a reason to shoot.

Now, attempting to break glass, weapon in hand, threatening posture once inside, blast away.