Concealed Carry Permit Holder killed in The Latin Club shootout

[Vsotok10]

http://theadvocate.com/home/1318500-125/br-man-slain-trying-to.html

The robber walked into The Latin Club, 8142 Greenwell Springs Road, at about 3 a.m. with a handgun and demanded money from patrons who stayed at the bar after it closed, said Cpl. L’Jean McKneely, a police spokesman.

Alvarez, 39, pulled out his handgun and started shooting at the intruder, McKneely said.

The robber returned fire, striking Alvarez in the chest, McKneely said.

Rene Alvarez had a concealed carry permit and always had his gun with him, Maria Alvarez said.

Had the victim been successful in stopping the threat without harming anyone else or himself, what legal repercussions would he possibly face?

 

[mikepizz]

probably get sued for wrongful death. What is he doing with a gun in a bar?

training, training, training.

 

[Cat]

I'd be very interested to see if the CHP holder had been drinking. And if he had, why he would think it's a good idea to pull a gun. Unfortunately he can't answer. Perfect example of why booze + guns don't mix. Thankfully he didn't hit an innocent.

 

[oleheat]

Wow. Very sad that is turned out the way it did.



Okay, someone in the know please step in here (and that ain't me).


For the sake of inquiring minds.....If the bar was closed for business, and he was invited there by the bar's owner- who gave him permission to carry in his business- was he still illegally carrying in a "bar"?

(My point being- if they aren't open to the general public and taking in money, would that be like the owner inviting him into his home?)

 

[hdfinder47]

Or "what if" the thug had not run away after being shot (shot at?) and had murdered everyone in the bar after robbing them. Then we'd all be saying: "why didn't that CPH holder protect everyone?". Of course, he should not carry in a bar - but better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6? Didn't work out this time..........just rambling. Finished.

 

[charlie12]

If the bar was closed how did they guy just walk in the door? He always carried so did he always carry at the bar? Was he .05 or over? Was his CHP invalid since he was in a bar?

I alway heard that everybody had to be cleared out of a bar at a certain time, is that true?

 

[Gus McCrae]

Very sobering.

 

[Bearco]

His permit would be invalid no matter what time it was or even if the bar was closed. Outside of any drinking, he was illegally conceal carrying. Closed bar and carrying with permission as a friend of the owner or something? Then, at best he could try and fight a long private property battle in court if he were charged under 14:95.

Bars have to be closed to the public at a certain times in some areas, but I don't think there is anything keeping a private party going on longer (Sales might have to stop).

This is a sober reminder about training. Keep your training realistic and frequent. Remember, it is Monday and we are probably lacking most of the facts.

 

[Yrdawg]

IIRC...a person who acts in self defense or that of another will not be charged if the shooting is other wise legal

but I can't prove that and ain't willing to take time to look cuz I'm busy building stands today

 

[alpinehyperlite]

The law states:
"Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises."

Under the prohibited locations section, if they have a class A permit for alcohol, he was illegally carrying. The law does not state specific times that one can/cannot carry, so it must be interpreted that it is always.

 

[Russo]

so if the bar closes and they are no longer "selling" alcohol, the person concealing hasnt been drinking, can you still lawfully carry in the establishment?

 

[11Bravo]

Just because they stop selling doesn't mean their license to sell changes...it is illegal to carry.

 

[alpinehyperlite]

Just because they stop selling doesn't mean their license to sell changes...it is illegal to carry.

This


That would be like saying you can carry on a school campus after the school day is out. Or you can carry in a courthouse when court is not in session. Times don't matter. The location itself is the no carry zone.

 

[aroundlsu]

Are you guys sure this place is really a bar? I have been to Latin American "clubs" that are just places to socialize and dance. Some you can BYOB and food. Latin americans like to party like that. I dated one for several years. That might explain why the place was still open at 3am

 

[aroundlsu]

Hey check it out. You can look up alcohol permits:

http://atcpub.license.louisiana.gov/Lookup/LicenseLookup.aspx

For that address I found:

So the place has a "Class B" permit. Looks like he was OK to carry there. As I suspected, it's not really a bar but a store that opens up as a social/dance club at night. They probably unofficially allow you to bring your own drinks.

 

[70116]

Seems as if he really wasn't trained in shooting in pressure situations. We all know that you can get your CHP and carry a gun but then - CAN YOU USE IT EFFECTIVELY WHEN THE CRAP HITS THE FAN?

According to the report, he had the first shot(s) but didn't put the BG down. Too bad.

 

[Keller]

I believe he was the owner of the establishment. Does that change anything?

 

[Sin-ster]

I believe he was the owner of the establishment. Does that change anything?

He wasn't.

But before I read the article, I was curious as to whether or not that applied to the owner and/or working employees with permission from the owner. My guess would be that it does not, but... I leave that up to the Statue Hunters.

Good find, Teddy. Useful website for sure.

 

[Yrdawg]

As a general reference I believe that the owner can hire someone to do anything that an owner is legal to do...acting as his ( the owners ) agent

 

[Bearco]

LA RS 14:95 (Illegal carrying of weapons) does not have an exemption for private property or owners. Owners, employees , and agents have been doing it for years on private property without any issues, but that does not make it legal. They could always be charged with Illegal carrying of weapons.

LA RS 14:95.5 (Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet) does make an exception for owners, lessees, and employees. They can have firearms, but technically they are not supposed to conceal them. If charged, they could probably fight and win through the court system on the basis of private property.