Do "no Gun" Signs Carry Force Of Law?

[UNIQDEFTECH]

I guess your comfort level would depend on....

1.How long have you CCW'd?
2.What type of cannon do you carry?
3.What type of clothing you you wear?
4.What type of weapons carrier do you have?
5.How much your mind is on the weapon?
6.How much do you telegraph to others that you have a weapon?
7.How key'd up are you?
8.what is the surrounding element that can bolster all of the above....
and...
9.How do you appear to others?...

So many different factors to consider...

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[leVieux]

Just don't patronize any business with such signs. Make them pay for their stupidity.

 

[Morgan Allison]

Sorry I've been gone a while. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by how much traffic there is here. I'm trying to get back into the swing of things, but damn, folks! You guys post a lot!


Basically, I agree with honestlou. If you look at La. R.S. 40:1379.3 (L), it says that "Anyone who carries and conceals a handgun in violation of any provision of this Section, unless authorized to do so by another provision of the law, shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both." Then, later in the same section, (O) says: "The provisions of Subsection N of this Section [where it lists places you can't carry] shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section."

So, if there is a sign, and you carry concealed with a State issued permit, you can be charged with a misdemeanor and lose your permit. It sucks, yes, but it's the law as far as I can tell.

 

[A5Mag12]

Why does it suck that a private property owner can tell you whether or not you can come on his property armed? Don't you want the right to tell me whether I can come on your property armed?

 

[spanky]

Why does it suck that a private property owner can tell you whether or not you can come on his property armed? Don't you want the right to tell me whether I can come on your property armed?

Agreed.

 

[tigerfan_9]

Texas has a sign law that I think makes it pretty clear.

http://www.texas3006.com/signs.php

This is what should be done in LA. It makes it very clear and official as to who the business is restricting. Plenty of businesses in TX have the no gun signs but they mean nothing to a CHLer. But if a business post and official 30.06 sign in the propped place then there is no question as to the legalities of carrying in the facility.

This would remove the uncertainty that you are having.

 

[Morgan Allison]

Why does it suck that a private property owner can tell you whether or not you can come on his property armed? Don't you want the right to tell me whether I can come on your property armed?

First of all, we are not talking about people's homes, we are talking about places of business that are open to the public. It is already recognized that businesses open to the public don't have the same rights to restrict the behavior of customers as a private home-owner would. That being said, I am not adverse to business owners' right to restrict their customers in this instance.

What I am opposed to (what sucks) is the draconian penalty for a violation. If you don't happen to see the little sign some businesses have, you face criminal prosecution and loss of your CCP, probably for a very long time.

 

[XD-GEM]

First of all, we are not talking about people's homes, we are talking about places of business that are open to the public. It is already recognized that businesses open to the public don't have the same rights to restrict the behavior of customers as a private home-owner would. That being said, I am not adverse to business owners' right to restrict their customers in this instance.

What I am opposed to (what sucks) is the draconian penalty for a violation. If you don't happen to see the little sign some businesses have, you face criminal prosecution and loss of your CCP, probably for a very long time.

Couldn't you make the argument that a sign which is difficult to see brings in RS 14:63.3's requirement (in red below):

RS 14:63.3

Quote:
§63.3. Entry on or remaining in places or on land after being forbidden

A. No person shall without authority go into or upon or remain in or upon or attempt to go into or upon or remain in or upon any structure, watercraft, or any other movable, or immovable property, which belongs to another, including public buildings and structures, ferries, and bridges, or any part, portion, or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, including by means of any sign hereinafter described, by any owner, lessee, or custodian of the property or by any other authorized person. For the purposes of this Section, the above mentioned sign means a sign or signs posted on or in the structure, watercraft, or any other movable, or immovable property, including public buildings and structures, ferries and bridges, or part, portion or area thereof, at a place or places where such sign or signs may be reasonably expected to be seen.
B. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned in the parish jail for not more than six months, or both.

Added by Acts 1960, No. 78, §1. Amended by Acts 1963, No. 91, §1; Acts 1968, No. 647, §1; Acts 1977, No. 445, §1; Acts 1978, No. 694, §1.

If the sign is too small or in an out-of-the way place, would that not be a defense against the misdemeanor and allow you to keep your CHP?

 

[A5Mag12]

The biggest problem business owners face is distinguishing between the two types of folks who carry. Some carry for defense and unless a real problem arises no one but them would ever no they were packing and most business owners have no problem with these people being armed on their properties. Then there are those who are on an ego trip and carry to make up for a small sack, those are the ones most business owners want to keep out. You all know who I'm talking about and if you don't then I'll bet your friends do. It's just another situation where the masses have to suffer because of the few.

 

[Morgan Allison]

Couldn't you make the argument that a sign which is difficult to see brings in RS 14:63.3's requirement (in red below):

Oh, I would certainly argue it. Hopefully, I'd be able to convince the judge. I'd probably have an investigator take pictures of the outside of the business to show that the sign was not very prominent. But, since it's a misdemeanor, a single judge will decide your fate at trial. There is at least one anti-gun judge I know of where I live, and I'd rather not take my chances with him.

I'd also consider talking to the DA and see if I could negotiate it down to something like "disturbing the peace" or something else that hopefully wouldn mess up my CCP. I'm not sure, though, that any negotiation wouldn't still result in losing the CCP. I haven't actually had a case where it's come up, so I'd have to research that.

Also, win or lose, getting arrested, reporting the arrest to the State Police as your CCP requires, missing work to go to court at least a couple of times, posting bail... it's still a major pain in the butt.

As a practical matter, I'd either be sure about where you are entering, or being sure about your concealment and understanding the risk you are taking.

 

[craymo2]

This is from the LSP Concealed License Page. This is why I feel those "no firearms" signs are legally binding. Read the last paragrapgh

"R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) states that no concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

A law enforcement office, station, or building;

A detention facility, prison, or jail;

A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom;

A polling place;

A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision;
The state capitol building;

Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage;

Any church, synagogue, mosque or similar place of worship;

A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity;

Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

Any school "firearm free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.

The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person."

 

[ryan]

what are the laws for how much signage they must have up?

 

[CEHollier]

This is from the LSP Concealed License Page. This is why I feel those "no firearms" signs are legally binding. Read the last paragrapgh

"R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) states that no concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

A law enforcement office, station, or building;

A detention facility, prison, or jail;

A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom;

A polling place;

A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision;
The state capitol building;

Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage;

Any church, synagogue, mosque or similar place of worship;

A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity;

Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

Any school "firearm free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.

The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person."

The last paragraph opens up stating a property owner/lessee can restrict access and prohibit concealed firearms. This would apply to a residence or businesses. It later states a CCP owner cannot conceal at a private residence without permission of the owner. It does not specify permission from a businesses. According to the first sentence of the last paragraph it does not require a CCP owner concealing to notify the business owner.

 

[GWB]

I wonder if someone who posts those signs has some dirtbag robbing their place would press charges on you for shooting him, or thank you for it.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

I wonder if someone who posts those signs has some dirtbag robbing their place would press charges on you for shooting him, or thank you for it.

I often wonder the same thing as thwarting a robbery is the only way they would ever know that I was carrying.

 

[FishingBack]

I often wonder the same thing as thwarting a robbery is the only way they would ever know that I was carrying.

I wonder if the castle law applies, since you may not have a legal right to be there.