First handgun advice

[Trent2]

If you want the best, get a Sig p220. Look at the torture test on utube. I'll put mine up against a Gluck any day.
If you want an okay 1911 model get a Llama. Reynerson had a few of them when I was in there today. $325
I've had Llamas before and the ones I had were good shooters. I wouldn't stake my life on one, but for starting out with an 1911 model, it's probably the cheapest you can find.
I still have one in 380 and wouldn't sell it for anything. It's a baby 1911, but they quit making it.

 

[Trent2]

I guess you don't want to hear about all the issues, past AND current, with the P220...[/QUOTE]

Sure......always like to know what to look for.
Mines an all West German build.
Guns are machines and are always prone to wear and breakage. Nothings perfect if it's man made.

 

[b36rjm]

Get the gun you want by buying on credit. There is a shop in Hammond that lets you pay your bill in 12 months with no interest. They may not have the firearm you want, but they can order it. If you want the name of the shop, instant message me.

 

[Trent2]

Didn't mean to flame the Glock owners, the the guy is looking for a low priced 1911 style gun. Why tell him to buy a Glock or what ever? He already knows what style he wants. Help him, don't confuse him!

Last three digits from serial # removed from pic.
You can go to view and zoom in browser bar a couple of times and see the German proof mark and W. Germany on the slide.
If you're wondering if it has the hammer return.....Yes, it does.
They had just started that that year if I remember correctly.

 

[derf]

There were a few SIG P6s at the last LD gun show for $299, very good deal, IMHO.

My suggestion is go to the range or the BZ with some good BS folks and shoot some 1911s and Glocks. Get what feels best to you.
My opinion, I'll take the Glock in 9mm. Eighteen 9mm > eight .45s, IMHO. DA > SA, IMHO, although Glock is not exactly DAO to me.
Like a fool, I traded my Glock 17 away, so I'm on the lookout for another.
CZs are good, too. Whatever you may decide think about something than can take a.22LR conversion kit.

 

[Leethar]

I've shot several different Glocks, and I've shot several different 1911s. I'm fairly familiar with both. I feel like I'm a better shot with a 1911, but here's the thing:

I don't think I could afford to feed a .45 right now. I also don't think I could afford the $650+ price tag on a good, forged frame 1911 (Not to mention the tweaking I will likely have/want to do.) I will be getting a 1911, and when I do I want it to be one that'll last for decades.

Right now, I think I'm going to put down some money on a used Glock or p6. Kind of a "beater" gun I can use while I first get into shooting. Something I can learn on, and afford to shoot regularly, and not be unarmed for a year while I save for a 1911. That's my thoughts, anyway.

 

[Trent2]

I'm enjoying the history lesson since it's hard to find the history on the early Sigs. Even Sig seems to be a little vague or in the dark on the early years.
I did know an accident had taken place on the use or misuse of the decocker for Sig to prompt the trigger return and send a warning about only using the decock. I just didn't know the details until now.
Please, tell me more when you come back. I just finished supper, so I am finally back myself.
I find it interesting to find someone who knows this much about the Sigs. I've done some research, but really hadn't learned a whole lot about p220.
I also have a p229 in 40 if you have any good info on that one. I would really appreciate it. Always want to learn all I can.

 

[Trent2]

Leethar, did you get the link?

 

[Leethar]

Leethar, did you get the link?

I don't think so. Link to what?

 

[CEHollier]

finance a gun . Build credit .

If feeding it is a problem get a 9mm not a 45. Hebert's has one year same as cash. Check out the XD 9mm or XDM.

 

[CZowner07]

I have a CZ P-01 in 9mm and I love it. If you buy something other than a 1911, I believe this is a very good gun. So far it has been 100% reliable. I have never had a Failure to feed, misfirre, or any kind of malfunction. If you dont like poly guns, this is a very good gun because it is light alloy. Someone told me that Cabelas has them in stock, but I'm sure you can find a better price somewhere else. I paid mine $550 including tax.

http://czusa.com/product_detail.php?id=28 You will find the gun for about $100-125 lower than MSRP.

 

[TxShooter]

Interesting comments, Steve. My P220 is a G285 series...got it for my 15th birthday, so that'd mean it was made before November 1997. I wanted the K-Kote finish but the distributor only had blued. I guess I lucked out; I've heard that K-Kote was applied by a variety of vendors and whether it peeled was luck of the draw. The blue's never rusted while I watched, so I guess they finally got that part right.

The original 8-shot mag was known here as the DPS magazine, supposedly developed for the Texas Dept. of Public Safety contract. As you said, the mags had an iffy rep. I've got two of the factory 7-rounders with the zig-zag seam down the back and three MecGars with the polished blue finish, smooth seam, and P226-style baseplate. Those sumbitches are TIGHT when fully loaded, somuch so that they're hard to unload by hand. I can only imagine how much force it would've taken to seat a DPS mag with the slide closed.

Supposedly the later P220s were upgraded to better withstand +P ammo. Dunno since I was always happy with 230 gr. JHP in standard loads.

FWIW, the P228 is available again...sorta. One of the distributors has a limited run of P228s with the lightrail and hooked triggerguard like they have on the P229R. Interestingly, some are marked US M11, with those markings covered over. That's odd, because to my knowledge Uncle Sam never ordered any M11s with rails. Maybe it was just for looks, like those Caspian frames that had US Property stamps?

 

[Trent2]

Thanks LSP972 for all the great information.

I had my p220 sent back two years ago for the Sig overhaul and new night sights so I'm not sure if the pins were changed at that time or not. I received all the original parts back so I'll look and see if there are any pins in the bag and keep an eye out for the breech block pins moving.

If I remember correctly, mine is of 95 vintage. The short trigger was added later when you could order the part and replace it yourself. I still have the long trigger and keep it as a spare.

Thanks again for the history. Now I know who to ask if I ever have a problem.

 

[henry]

Very interesting reading. I too have a Sig P220. I got it used 5 years ago and have always been interested in finding out it's birthday.
It has the slide with the pins in it. I found this to really be a confusing way to manufacture a slide. I have had no trouble with it though. I took it to my gunsmith after getting it for him to go over, he changed those pins for new ones after dismattling the slide completely.
The performance of this pistol has been outstanding, very accurate and reliable. I have "carried" it several times, very heavy and bulky, but never worried about being "under-gunned".
Is there a website to go to and look up the serial number to find it's manufacture date?
I also see that when looking at after-market parts, they sometimes say "American or European" type. Again, how to tell the difference? The slide has the "New Hampshire" stamp on it.

 

[Trent2]

Here's the link again. These are SIG P6 9mm pistols, which were the German Police and Military version of the P225.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.../1903?osCsid=51eb7432c5ccc7b37ba3bd13ea85c026

 

[Trent2]

Henry,
I remember finding a site on the internet on how to read the two letter code, but don't remember where. You can do a search on reading p220 date codes and probably find it.
Maybe LSP972 will help.
The American or European type refers to the placement of the magazine release. Us Americans like ours on the left side of the frame where the thumb of the shooting hand can release it. The Europeans prefer theirs by the bottom of the magazine.

Sorry for stealing this thread. I guess we should have started one just for Sigs.

 

[henry]

Thank you for your help!

 

[TxShooter]

Henry, your pistol may be missing the date codes as well...my '97 P220 certainly doesn't have them. As I understand it, the date codes/proof mark were applied to the German-assembled SIGs. My P220 has "Made in Germany" on the slide but I believe the missing stamp means that it was assembled stateside.

You could contact SIG at one point and give them your SN to get the build date. Now that they're charging for a framed certificate, I don't know if they'll do it over the phone anymore. Back in '02, I called them about my P226 9mm. Since it wasn't imported into the US (bought it in Australia), they arranged for the factory in Germany to call me back. That was a nice touch...they said it was made on January 3rd, 1993, and that it was fortunate that it wasn't any older, because German law only requires them to keep records for 10 years then they dispose of them.

I just checked...they've gone the nickel & dime route after all. From SIG's website FAQ:

I would like to know the age of my gun – how do I get that information?
If the gun was manufactured or imported by us, we can get the date of manufacture from our Records Department. This is offered as a service: SIG OFFICIAL DATE OF MANUFACTURE CERTIFICATE $12.95 To order, please call customer service @ (603) 418-8102 with a Visa, MasterCard or American Express. We do not recommend sending credit card information via email. Please allow 2-3 weeks for research, printing and shipping.

 

[SpeedRacer]

and 1911s blow up tanks.

 

[Gus McCrae]

If you like the 1911 platform the RIA is a good start until you can afford more.

Absolutely it is. The rentals I've shot worked fine dirt and all. I know several who have them and say the same thing. If you do have a problem, they are supposed to have great CS (there is a contact who posts on the m1911 forum). I've even considered buying one just because they are a good deal. I don't think I'd have a problem relying on one after I tested it.

Short of the basic design, generally comparing 1911s to Glocks is apples to oranges. The 1911 has been around ~100 years with many different manufacturers who all know how to make a better or cheaper gun. Glocks are Glocks, they've been around for much less time and nobody else makes a Glock.

As far as cast frames vs. forged, if the company controls their process it really won't matter for 99.99% of 1911s. Caspian uses cast frames! Not much else to say about it IMO.

finance a gun . Build credit .

IMO, Awful idea. If you can't save up for a run of the mill 1911, maybe you shouldn't be buying one.