For Those into 1960s Mustangs - This is *AWESOME*

[fepowered]

If anyone is thinking about building a car or racing one, you better have it done before you have your kids...UNLESS you got plenty of money to hire people to do your build. .

That is how/why I got into Fox bodied Mustangs. They have always been reasonable to mod and easy to get moving far beyond stock performance. They are still cheap and plentiful...

 

[JWG223]

Jwg, your prolly right about the new one. And I'll do what I've done so many times. I'll pull the SC off mine, sell both, buy a new one and put a SC on it hahahaha! It's going to have to be alot though. Infant imagine them coming as far as they have since 04 in a short period again. I will admit, I could care less for IRS. I'm. It a corner carver so it'll have to be something else. Direct injection, and a couple of turbos on a 5.0 might do it for me :-D

Man, I could talk mustangs with intelligent people who understand what they are meant to be all day long.

The problem with the mustang is not the power, it is the suspension. This is why adding more and more power to the GT500 is a bust. It is why the BOSS 302 can stomp it 0-60. Even though the BOSS 302 has an "iffy" suspension, it has some R-compound tires as I understand it.

On the track, in all the tests, IRS = SRA.

This is why people think it's "just as good".

Because it pulls the same numbers on the skidpad, has the same slalom speeds, etc. etc. etc. in all their paper tests.

However, when you are actually driving the car on the street, that SRA will bite you when you hit bumps mid-corner. Here in Louisiana, that is especially a big deal IMO.

I bet a TT/SC 5.0 is fun as hell, but am predicting that it has some nasty tenancies through corners with un-even pavement.

 

[JWG223]

What Pangris and SVTFreak said +10000..These new cars are the s&*t! They are like I said earlier superior to any 60's-70's Muscle cars in every way. Last times I went to a regional or national Mustang show you can tell that times are a changin'. The newer cars easily outnumber the older first generation cars and even the Fox bodied cars are dwindling in numbers. Enthusiasts are enjoying the newer technology and don't have to work on them all the time like the older cars. Like I tell my buddies, its time to sell our old Shelbys and Bosses so we can have some REAL fun with the cars!

Unreserved +1

When else could you have bought a 600+hp car with a factory 100K mile warranty on the driveline---STANDARD?!

 

[JWG223]

That is how/why I got into Fox bodied Mustangs. They have always been reasonable to mod and easy to get moving far beyond stock performance. They are still cheap and plentiful...

I had a 1988 Fox 5.0 w/TKO500, Crate motor, 4.10's, SFC's, etc. etc. etc.

I made the mistake of getting suckered into buying a 302 from Central Coast Mustang, I believe it was. It dynoed 242 rwhp a 5700rpm and was rising when they shut the dyno down. Basically, the car felt like an S2000 with bolt-ons. I was sick to my stomach. Traded for a stock WS6 and was happy. I think the LS1 cars are where it's at if you are shooting for 400+whp. 5.0's need forced induction to see numbers like that.

 

[JWG223]

Ford Racing shorty headers, Bassani X-Pipe with high flow cats, and SLP Catback combine to sound AMAZING, as long as you don't have a headache or take long trips. 70-80mph on the interstate is rough on the ears.

Suspension is welded full-length subframe connectors, H&R Super Sport springs, Koni struts/shocks, Maximum Motorsports camber plates, and some older brand that doesnt exist anymore upper and lower control arms. I think I'm swapping them soon for Maximum Motorsports lowers and factory uppers. revamping the whole rear with a panhard and torque arm is possible, want to do some autocrossing, unless I feel the car is limiting me I probably won't mess with it. It feels great in the corners but you pay for it in the potholes.

While I'm at it, powertrain is just a drop in K&N and the above exhaust mods, aluminum driveshaft and 3.73's. Put 265/300 to the ground and ran 13.2@104 with a horrible launch (week after I got the car 6 or 7 years ago, what did I know). Want a blower, goal is 400 to the ground.

After my "all-out" build on my 5.0, I grew to appreciate cars that were left as they rolled off the assembly line. Ears all but bleeding after road-trips sucked. Sounds great around town, though!

 

[bayoupirate]

DOn't like the 68 fastback.

I drove a 68 Coupe with a 289 hi-pro all through college.
Car had a rust issue and I decided that I didn't want to put the amount of money and work into a coupe.
I sold it and planned to build a 68 convertible.
Do they make a 68 coupe/convertible Body?
I'd like to make a shelby Convertible Replica with something insane under the hood.

Right now all of my money is tied up in a plane.

 

[fepowered]

I had a 1988 Fox 5.0 ...I made the mistake of getting suckered into buying a 302 from Central Coast Mustang,....Traded for a stock WS6 and was happy. I think the LS1 cars are where it's at if you are shooting for 400+whp. 5.0's need forced induction to see numbers like that.

It should not surprise you that a mild 302 does not perform like a LS1. 400fwhp is easy from a 302 and a streetable build. For 400rwhp all you have to do is step up to a 351 combo. Ford never produced a factory production 351 which could compete with the LS1 platform but fortunately for myself and other Ford fanatics the 5.0 Mustangs inspired an incredible aftermarket support explosion.
It is cool that you are into GM builds but your own less than ideal choices in building a Mustang are not representative of their potential.

 

[JWG223]

It should not surprise you that a mild 302 does not perform like a LS1. 400fwhp is easy from a 302 and a streetable build. For 400rwhp all you have to do is step up to a 351 combo. Ford never produced a factory production 351 which could compete with the LS1 platform but fortunately for myself and other Ford fanatics the 5.0 Mustangs inspired an incredible aftermarket support explosion.
It is cool that you are into GM builds but your own less than ideal choices in building a Mustang are not representative of their potential.

I was upset because the engine had heads, a cam, 1.7RR's, 10.5:1 compression, and all that jazz.
It was supposed to make "340bhp".
Well, I later discovered that was SAE Gross.
(It was a horribly shitty build, GT40P heads milled .030, X303 cam, etc. but still...a STOCK 5.0 should make 200-210whp. I was and still am butthurt over it.)

I called Keith Craft and talked with them for a while about THEIR engines. They said 320whp was about the most they got out of a 302. That is barely above 1rwhp/ci

The LS1 will easily make more than that. with just LT's and a cam. Put heads on it and my friend made 428whp on a hot day in California with just cheap Dart heads and a good cam. Another friend on a VERY conservative tune broke 430whp with a K&N CAI, LT headers, and a mild cam and FAST intake on his LS2. That was with the cam nosing over on the big end. The car was VERY streetable, you could lug it in 1st at 1100rpm and it wouldn't cam-surge.

The potential of the mustang has been rather dismal until the advent of the 4V head and wide-spread use of FI with the car. Now that the Coyote has come out, it has insane potential NA, as well, and even MORE FI.

The 5.0 was great for its time, but good luck getting more than 300-330whp out of it on the street on 93 octane.

As for Fords other 2-valve heads, they don't flow for beans. With an LSX engine, you at least get heads that will support most reasonable streetable cams. With Ford, it's AFR/Trickflow or you're not getting anywhere. STOCK LS6 heads (easy to find as take-offs, or stock if you have a C5Z) flow nearly as much as AFR's 185cc SBF Outlaw heads.
http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=21_22

I'm not a brand loyalist, either. I own domestic and import and am trading my Z06 for an import next year most likely. I'm just telling you what has worked for me, and that the facts and flow-bench and dyno data all agree with my experience at the drag strip, track, and on the road.

The 5.0 was the last of Ford's competitive vehicles (1992, as in 1993 the LT1 in the F-body trumped it) until the Terminator, which was ruined with a floppy chassis and weak suspension.

I am glad Ford has gotten back in the game, though! It's just a shame that the S197 has been hobbled so. Look for all that to change with the new mustang when it comes out.

FYI:

My dad has a 351W build. It's a 408ci w/SRP pistons, Lunati cam (*sp), SCAT forged stroker crank, main-girdle, AFR185's, and the support hardware you would expect.

I hope he gets the car running before I trade my LS7 off, but I doubt it. I would love to run him.

That being said, I think I could build an LS1 that would take out his 408, as long as pump-gas was a requirement of the build, as well as "streetable". It's pretty simple to get 450whp out of an LS1 if you want to spend a bit of money, and 420-430whp is cake. Much beyond that and you need to step up to an LS3 (why mess around with an LS2 unless you already have one?), where 500whp is pretty simple.

Again, I have no brand loyalty here even though I do own a GM and an Infiniti currently. Speed isn't all that important to me anymore, either, actually. At least, in a straight line. I have grown more and more appreciative of a competent chassis for the corners.

 

[fepowered]

I was upset because the engine had heads, a cam, 1.7RR's, 10.5:1 compression, and all that jazz.
It was supposed to make "340bhp".
Well, I later discovered that was SAE Gross.
(It was a horribly shitty build, GT40P heads milled .030, X303 cam, etc. but still...a STOCK 5.0 should make 200-210whp. I was and still am butthurt over it.)

I called Keith Craft and talked with them for a while about THEIR engines. They said 320whp was about the most they got out of a 302. That is barely above 1rwhp/ci

The LS1 will easily make more than that. with just LT's and a cam. .

A stock 302HO was only rated between 215 and 225HP. They certainly could not make 210whp. Something was either off on your tune or the dyno was not reading true if you were only making 242 with that crate motor.
Keith Craft can get 320whp out of GT 40 heads on a 302 with 93 octane. Drop a set of AFRs or TFS and a 302 can do much better. Professionally built (not Central Coast Mustang) Factory Stock 302s have been known to make 350ish fwhp and more with unported GT40 heads and an HO cam.
You simply can not compare 302 cubes to 350ish cubes on a NA street motor. If I am going to try and compete with a LS1 I will start with a 351.
You should be most butt hurt over the fact that you paid alot of cash for something you could have built in your garage for a fraction of the cost. That is the beauty of building a 351W. The bone yards are full of cheap roller 351W motors in Broncos and F/E series Ford trucks and vans. Not so with LS1 motors. I bought a set of Keith Craft ported Victor Jrs for less than you would pay for a single new LS1 aftermarket head. I can make big numbers with a streetable combo on pump gas and my bit of money will be far less than yours.
To each his own dude. I am all for diversity and a healthy sense of competition.