Ft polk unnessary land grab My family's land

[JadeRaven]

We see it exactly opposite. The military should have considered that- not vice versa. If the citizens hold out and refuse, polk needs to find another piece of land to purchase/use.

I'm not against the military expanding, I'm against any govt telling people that "you dont live here anymore because we need it and didn't plan ahead"

How far ahead do they need to plan? Looks like right now they're planning ahead. Should the government have done all of its planning in 1774?

If there was a large community with thousands of people displaced, I would be more apt to see your point. From info in this thread, only about 28 families are affected.

 

[Hitman]

How far ahead do they need to plan? Looks like right now they're planning ahead.
Should the government have done all of its planning in 1774?

If there was a large community with thousands of people displaced, I would be more apt to see your point.
From info in this thread, only about 28 families are affected.

Right. Many of which are living on an acre or two of land in the vast plot sought.

Sort of like having a mobile home on 1 acre, surrounded by 39,999 acres that do not belong to you.

I think only a family or two actually has a size-able piece of land that is being sought.
The vast majority of it is State land.

...and like I said. Those who find the very small chance of possibilities of holding out
will just be fenced-in from what is not theirs and trained around. Like other parts of Fort Polk.

NO ONE ever expected Fort Polk to be the size it is today. Even when it was created
it exploded way beyond the scale. It's been fine for a long time, but being the JRTC
it's requirements for MASSIVE Joint Training is being expanded.

 

[madwabbit]

How far ahead do they need to plan? Looks like right now they're planning ahead. Should the government have done all of its planning in 1774?

If there was a large community with thousands of people displaced, I would be more apt to see your point. From info in this thread, only about 28 families are affected.

Polk was established in 1941 and they acquired 6 square miles. (20% of which is unused)

To put polk in perspective, Bragg was established in 1918, covers 250sq mi and is the largest military installation in the country. It has ~10% unused. Looks like they planned this quite well.

Walt Disney world was built in 1971 and acquired 68 square miles. 30% of which is unused (reserved for future use) to this day.

One planned ahead, the other did not. My question is that with hundreds of thousands of acres in nearby states largely unused, why do they need this particular area? At bragg we drove to lejeune more times than I can count, and they came to us vice versa. Why on earth can't the boys at polk take a road trip.


and btw- "only 28 families" is a despicable comment. This isn't discussing some tax dodging buffoon in colorado. This is 28 tax paying, law abiding citizens that are being told the govt wants their land. If they don't sell, it'll be incredibly difficult to sell after the coe moves in so they are literally screwed. I'd like to see the coe get told to **** off.

Buying 6 square miles for a training installation is like buying a 1/4 acre farm. even if you're broke, its a blatantly stupid idea.

 

[Vermiform]

This is 28 tax paying, law abiding citizens that are being told ...........

Be kinda hard pressed to find 28 of those in Leesville.....

/joke

 

[Hitman]

Polk was established in 1941 and they acquired 6 square miles. (20% of which is unused)

To put polk in perspective, Bragg was established in 1918, has 250sq mi and is the largest military installation in the country. It has ~10% unused. Looks like they planned this quite well.

Walt Disney world was built in 1971 and acquired 68 square miles. 30% of which is unused (reserved for future use) to this day.

One planned ahead, the other did not. My question is that with hundreds of thousands of acres in nearby states largely unused, why do they need this particular area? At bragg we drove to lejeune more times than I can count, and they came to us vice versa. Why on earth can't the boys at polk take a road trip.


and btw- "only 28 families" is a despicable comment. This isn't discussing some tax dodging buffoon in colorado. This is 28 tax paying, law abiding citizens that are being told the govt wants their land. If they don't sell, it'll be incredibly difficult to sell after the coe moves in so they are literally screwed. I'd like to see the coe get told to **** off.

Buying 6 square miles for a training installation is like buying a 1/4 acre farm. even if you're broke, its a blatantly stupid idea.

Bragg acquired just what kind of land at that time? it wasn't prime woodland. It was desert crap.
Much easier to get mass quantities of.

With the surroundings cities expanding around Fort Polk as well,
they need to acquire training grounds as far away as possible from those expanding communities.

This is where Peason comes in. More REMOTE Land to train on, NO Major cities to deal with.
Mainly in dealing with NOISE which is the Number 1 Complaint half the time as well as Blast Waves.

20% unused sounds far fetched. It's used for something, I guarantee that.
Hunting, Wild Life Conservation, part of the National Forest Service Program, Kisatchie WMA,
.....someone is using every piece of Polk for something.

This is Polks attempt to bounce OUT and AWAY from the Major Cities.

 

[1911arkain]

Did you really say, "Just 28 families"?!

It's 28 FAMILIES! American Families that bought the land they wanted to live on and still want to live on. Just because Ft Polk MIGHT need it in the future doesn't give them the right to take it whenever they want.

Do the 28 families surround the whole base? Half the base? Why THIS land? Is there some resource under the soil?

 

[madwabbit]

Bragg acquired just what kind of land at that time? it wasn't prime woodland. It was desert crap.
Much easier to get mass quantities of.

Bragg's area is nearly all green woodland, fyi.

Still haven't answered the question. I know why they SAY they need to expand, I don't doubt that. Why this land? Why not some unoccupied land in mid arkansas somewhere?

 

[JadeRaven]

So uncle sam was supposed to forecast its needs as of 1941? The world is a much different place than it was during World War II.

If you think that's "despicable" then you must harbor a lot of hate and contempt in your personal life.

Should the hoover dam have never been built? What about the interstate system?

If you're going to argue against any and all eminent domain, including the very reasonable examples, then you're on the losing side of the argument.

 

[JadeRaven]

Did you really say, "Just 28 families"?!

It's 28 FAMILIES! American Families that bought the land they wanted to live on and still want to live on. Just because Ft Polk MIGHT need it in the future doesn't give them the right to take it whenever they want.

Do the 28 families surround the whole base? Half the base? Why THIS land? Is there some resource under the soil?

Sorry, but the US Supreme Court has a long history saying they do have that right.

The reason they were able to purchase, own and continue to own the land was due to the existing government, society and economic system we have and enjoy. Land ownership is not possible in many other parts of the world. Legitimate use of eminent domain is a part of owning property in this country.

If there was no eminent domain, we would all still be riding horses on dirt roads and alleys, not have electricity or plumbing, not have low cost access to quality food, healthcare, schools, police, etc.

 

[madwabbit]

So uncle sam was supposed to forecast its needs as of 1941? The world is a much different place than it was during World War II.

If you think that's "despicable" then you must harbor a lot of hate and contempt in your personal life.

Should the hoover dam have never been built? What about the interstate system?

If you're going to argue against any and all eminent domain, including the very reasonable examples, then you're on the losing side of the argument.

Okay lets take this one at a time.

1) They adequately planned for dozens of bases that decade that don't have this problem today.
2) I don't harbor hate, I'm stunned that you think forcing 28 people off their property is reasonable. If it were your family, maybe you'd reconsider.
3) The hoover dam didn't force 30 families off their land, it put thousands of citizens to work during the great depression and resides on a state park- Lake Mead.
4) Reasonable examples?

My PD needs a longer range, so we are going to tell the people behind us (on the same block) that we are writing them a check and they have 90 days to be gone. If they refuse, we will build the range on the city land adjacent to their property and let them deal with the gun shot noise... which will plummet their land value and/or make the property worthless anyway.

Oh, we also need the next 3 blocks for a tactical driving course. There's no way we could know cars would go 100+mph when the PD was founded in 1918. Everyone on these 3 blocks, beat it.

There's an apples to apples example. Lets start with that.

edit: "Oh, that OTHER adjacent land we own but aren't using? That won't work for our range- we are saving that unused area for something else. No, we can't drive to Lafayette to use their range. Because uh.... well, Because."

There. Apples to apples. go.

 

[Hitman]

Bragg's area is nearly all green woodland, fyi.

I've been there, just last year in fact. Flew in on a HELO for their QRP program.

The Surrounding land is indeed woodland, but the soil is sandy clay that (barely) grows pine trees.

Still haven't answered the question. I know why they SAY they need to expand, I don't doubt that.
Why this land? Why not some unoccupied land in mid arkansas somewhere?

Dude.....
Have you not read anything I've posted?
Have you read a single article about his topic?

Arkansas? are you serious? The BASE IS HERE! Established already.

...you think 28 families being uprooted is bad?
try NOT expanding Fort Polk as being the a JRTC
and just training in another State! or Not allowing Fort Polk to expand at all and
just keep it capped. No growth.

Around 8,000 Civilians work on Fort Polk
and they are hiring everyday. It's like an Ant hill.

Peason is where most all the Live Fire Training occurs. Polk was giving the ok to buy land 2 years ago
and they have. Lots of it, mainly from Tree companies.
Now they find themselves surrounding pockets of Private land
with Live Fire ranges.

 

[madwabbit]

I've been there, just last year in fact. Flew in on a HELO for their QRP program.

The Surrounding land is indeed woodland, but the soil is sandy clay that (barely) grows pine trees.



Dude.....
Have you not read anything I've posted?
Have you read a single article about his topic?

Arkansas? are you serious? The BASE IS HERE! Established already.

...you think 28 families being uprooted is bad?
try NOT expanding Fort Polk as being the a JRTC
and just training in another State! or Not allowing Fort Polk to expand at all and
just keep it capped. No growth.

Around 8,000 Civilians work on Fort Polk
and they are hiring everyday. It's like an Ant hill.

Peason is where most all the Live Fire Training occurs. Polk was giving the ok to buy land 2 years ago
and they have. Lots of it, mainly from Tree companies.
Now they find themselves surrounding pockets of Private land
with Live Fire ranges.

FYI

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/75690856/Fort-Polk-Land-Purchase-Map---PDF---PDF

The map clearly shows that its neighboring land, but not "surrounded" as you proposed.

There was also no emphasis on what would happen if sellers were unwilling- though judging by the statement they are more interested in commercial land anyway.

Trust me, I know its unreasonable to ask them to train elsewhere. I just think its more unreasonable to step in on unwilling sellers. If you give them 100,000 acres today, they'll want 250,000 more tomorrow.

I don't think its unreasonable to have a giant installation for multi-purpose training; ie, Bragg. Thousands of service members from every branch, including alphabet and leo agencies train there every year because thats where the facilities are. What is unreasonable is that you built a condo because it was cheap and quick. Now that your neighbors built condos as well, you want to buy them all out because you should have built a complex and you'd like to add a golf course. If they don't want to sell, well too bad we are building it anyway. They can deal with ducking golf balls.

I'm as pro military as the next guy, but im more pro-citizen. If they don't want to sell, tough crap. I'd still like to see the CoE get the finger just to set a precedent- OR see the owners hold out for a payment that is excruciatingly painful so (hopefully) someone says "we could have bought 1/2 a state with that money twenty years ago.... you know what? Lets buy some area today. Hey look, theres 400,000 acres in colorado that no one's paid taxes on in 2 decades. Let's offer to wash his IRS debt and give him prime plus 1 for his real estate.

 

[Emperor]

Good debate! Now let me spoil it for those who side with the landowners. I do too, BTW.

But, if this caused enough BS, and the Army threatened to shut that base down; you'd have thousands of people who's lives revolve around that base come in there and take the house out one splinterat a time! And then, they would throw the owners out right after the last brick was gone!

Sorry! That's the way it goes!

As for Jindal? Let something threaten an economy sustainer like Fort Polk; and he and Suprya; AND the kids, would help remove them.

 

[madwabbit]

Good debate! Now let me spoil it for those who side with the landowners. I do too, BTW.

But, if this caused enough BS, and the Army threatened to shut that base down; you'd have thousands of people who's lives revolve around that base come in there and take the house out one splinterat a time! And then, they would throw the owners out right after the last brick was gone!

Sorry! That's the way it goes!

As for Jindal? Let something threaten an economy sustainer like Fort Polk; and he and Suprya; AND the kids, would help remove them.

correct - which is why its such an issue. They've rooted into a point where it doesn't make any sense for a single governing authority to stand up for the citizen. I don't like that scenario at all.

 

[Emperor]

correct - which is why its such an issue. They've rooted into a point where it doesn't make any sense for a single governing authority to stand up for the citizen. I don't like that scenario at all.

I don't know what the scope of the SC'S blessing of eminent domain was in the argument, but more local governments are using and/or abusing it.

I would assume that another case where the lines are more blurred than the one that established todays grabs guidelines needs to happen to clarify this crap.

 

[madwabbit]

I don't know what the scope of the SC'S blessing of eminent domain was in the argument, but more local governments are using and/or abusing it.

I would assume that another case where the lines are more blurred than the one that established todays grabs guidelines needs to happen to clarify this crap.

it'll happen eventually. Some good ol' boy is going to say "No.", then enforce his "Private Property" and "No Trespassing" signs with his attorney and his rifle.

 

[Emperor]

it'll happen eventually. Some good ol' boy is going to say "No.", then enforce his "Private Property" and "No Trespassing" signs with his attorney and his rifle.

I called Randy Weaver a minute ago to see if he knew anybody!

 

[Gator 45/70]

Who owns Camp Beauregard ? It's like 50 miles down the road. I'm told it still has an active bombing range but is very seldom used ? Besides isn't the military downsizing ?

 

[madwabbit]

That was a little different. They wanted him, not his property.

 

[Hitman]

This is not an 'Eminent Domain' situation
and ONLY the Media has used such terms.....and you guys....