Grand Master's Viewpoint

[Golden Dragon]

Those who know do not speak - Those who speak do not know

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Do not remark on the faults of others, but see what you yourself have done or left undone.

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The fool knows many things, and talks about them endlessly. The sage knows that one can not know that one knows and remains silent unless asked for an opinion which is all that is possible
Lao Fzu

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Better to remain quiet and thought a fool then speak and remove all doubt!

 

[ruow]

The sound of one hand clapping.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Woof....

 

[pntbllr228]

The sound of one hand clapping.

I see we have some people that have read the Dao....

 

[Uncle John]

Changing the subject, I lived through all the martail arts fads. First it was Karate when Elvis killed a leapard with a Karate chop in the movie Harem Scarem, and Mat Helm "Dean Martin" beat up Chuck Norris. Then Bruce Lee came along and beat up Chuck and started the Kung fu thing, soon to be followed by Sho Kosugi and all the Ninja movies. Then my little girl Anna beat up Shane Kosugi and the Karate Kid thing started. They picked me and Bo Jacobs my student for the movie but we both got orders for Germany, Pat Johnson got my part and the blond headed kid that Bo beat up for real got to play the bad guy. Pat Morita and Ralph Machio didn't even know Karate. Then along came the Karate Operator Michael Enchanis the guy that stares at goats for real, pretty good knife fighter got zapped in Central America. Dont know about the goats. Chuck Norris made Major in Delta Force while my student Bo really did go to Delta Force, I was just an MP. This was the age of Superfoot Wallace and the PKA full contact Karate, or was it kick boxing they did that too. I was stuck in the 3rd AD in Friedburg speaking German. Then the age of acrobatic kata and music I kinda liked that and the West Coast Demo Team Ernie Reyes was and is a terrific instructor. I reffed George Chungs last fight he wore a Blue gi, and was the smallest heavy weight. I reffed a three time tie with George and Cindy Rothrock she won when George shortstroked a round house kick.
Then along came the Gracie Brothers I liked it at first when there were no rules then they got rules and it reminded me more of championship wrestling than a martial art with all the boasting and hype, seems a long time since I first put on a gi in 1964. I think I will go teach some handicapped kids and start a new fad.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Where is this going?


And I mean no disrespect to your past glories, but it isn't relevant anymore.

Just last night at the dojang, we were discussing a program on telelvision where Royce Gracie was recalling the beginnings of what is now "mixed martial arts."
And now look at where the sport today!


I got worn out on the "My Grandmaster is better than your Grandmaster" crap years ago.


The days when the martial arts community was relatively small and everybody knew just about everybody are gone.
We can bandy about what was and has been all day long.

Or we can move forward.

.

 

[Uncle John]

Where is this going?


And I mean no disrespect to your past glories, but it isn't relevant anymore.

Just last night at the dojang, we were discussing a program on telelvision where Royce Gracie was recalling the beginnings of what is now "mixed martial arts."
And now look at where the sport today!


I got worn out on the "My Grandmaster is better than your Grandmaster" crap years ago.


The days when the martial arts community was relatively small and everybody knew just about everybody are gone.
We can bandy about what was and has been all day long.

Or we can move forward.

.

That wasnt glory just history and there was a lot more...MMA will be around for a while I think because it most fits todays society. They want to sit and watch two guys nearly kill each other, the Romans liked that too, pure entertainment.

Uncle Ted for President, I was the Louisiana state director for Ted Nugent United Sportsmen of America for 3 years. He would have made govenor of Michigan had he run, but he has a proclivity to say the wrong thing too many times that would not get him the grass roots support. Chuck Norris naw, going to be 80 years old soon. I think Ted would have made a better Movie Star. Better look at that Tea Party, getting interesting.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Oooooook!





.

 

[Hitman]

Or we can move forward.

.

tis hard for some folks...

 

[Speedlace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8&feature=related

To put this vid into context.

The old "instructor" (Black Gi) said he used his "Chi" to defeat his opponents.

The "instructor" had set a challenge to any martial artist from any discipline.
You pay ~500,000 yen to fight with him.
If you win you'll receive ~1,000,000 yen.

F***ing ho-larious.
[YOUTUBE]tib2Urowsdc[/YOUTUBE]

The man in the White Gi took his bet.
Even signed his name on the dotted line.

[YOUTUBE]oMgVmFzBrus[/YOUTUBE]
BTW: The vid says "karate", but he's from a jujitsu school.

 

[Speedlace]

In an mma fight the ref may stop it if the person goes down(depending on the strike). Also I still don't see how strikes to the head (what is most likely would happen if a person got dropped from a body shot) would kill the person.

Ever heard of the Dim Mak?
[YOUTUBE]qa1nzD-n25Q[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Hitman]

Not sure what's more disturbing. The old man believing he's real, or the amount of retards that actually participated.

Honestly this is what scares me about putting my son in something like this. I could just see myself walking into a DoJo and meeting the instructor who thinks he has these powers too.

I guess I just see more Billy bad-ass types than I do actual reserved Martial Artist.

Plus the majority of the white trainers I see are all fat. What kind of disciplinary Martial Arts program doesn't teach you to maintain your health?

..meh..

 

[cheese]

Plus the majority of the white trainers I see are all fat. What kind of disciplinary Martial Arts program doesn't teach you to maintain your health?

Lol. I know what you mean. Fortunately, most of the blackbelts where I train are very fit. There are a few though....

 

[Jed]

I guess obama ain't the only flake from the windy city

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The problem with most Martial Arts is in-breeding. Practitioner's practice against people practicing the same or similar technique. That the strength of MMA; you practice against free style opponents. In a system like Wing Chun you may game plan a scenario where if and opponent does x then I will counter with y. That type of linear thinking is flawed on the street. In a free form style like Muay Thai a fighter says I'm gonna blast him with my clinch game until he proves he can stop it. I don't care what technique he uses. It's non-linear and proactive rather than reactive. This may be sacrilegious but I think the top flight MMA guys of today would DESTROY the Top Flight Martial Artist of 20 and 30 years ago. GSP is far to multi-faceted for say Bruce Lee, an athlete of similar weight. The same can be said of Norris or whoever your Black Belt Magazine Hero of yester year is.

 

[GIJeaux]

Ever heard of the Dim Mak?
[YOUTUBE]qa1nzD-n25Q[/YOUTUBE]

I guess this will come in useful if he is ever mugged by his own students. It doesn't seem to work on anyone else. I wonder how many times the Bad Guy will let him try?



Be well.
Al

 

[Hitman]

The problem with most Martial Arts is in-breeding. Practitioner's practice against people practicing the same or similar technique. That the strength of MMA; you practice against free style opponents. In a system like Wing Chun you may game plan a scenario where if and opponent does x then I will counter with y. That type of linear thinking is flawed on the street. In a free form style like Muay Thai a fighter says I'm gonna blast him with my clinch game until he proves he can stop it. I don't care what technique he uses. It's non-linear and proactive rather than reactive. This may be sacrilegious but I think the top flight MMA guys of today would DESTROY the Top Flight Martial Artist of 20 and 30 years ago. GSP is far to multi-faceted for say Bruce Lee, an athlete of similar weight. The same can be said of Norris or whoever your Black Belt Magazine Hero of yester year is.

Something you missed is that MMA trains you to win in a sport.

Martial Arts trains you to end threats violently.

MMA is restricted to MANY rules and therefore DO NOT Train nearly as extensive as Martial arts Experts. To name a few of these.
Commission approved gloves
Weight classes
Time limits and rounds
Mandatory drug testing
No head butting or kicking to the downed opponent
No knees to the head of a downed opponent
No downward point of the elbow strikes
No strikes to the spine or the back of the head
No groin or throat strikes
No small joint manipulation

Therefore since MMA Fighters are restricted to this aspect of their training they are obviously not prepared for the MANY scenarios that can/do and will happen in a street fight.

To name a few of these important situations;
Much more important scenarios such as:
Being attacked by more than one opponent.
Being attacked by an assailant who is armed.
Being attacked from behind or from your periphery.
Being attacked in an hostile environment.
Being attack by an opponent with an unnaturally high pain threshold due to intoxication from alcohol or illicit drugs.
Being attacked by an opponent with a significant height, weight or strength advantage

Not to mention the fact that most every MMA fight ends up on the soft mat. In a street fight, the last place you want to be is on the GROUND!

One on One in the ring, of course an MMA Fighter could possibly have an advantage b/c it's HIS sport with the end result of winning. On the street however I wouldn't be so confident.

I think it's important to remember that the best fighters in the MMA are fighting from a ROOT Martial Art, that has been WATERED DOWN to be able to be applied in a Competition Arena.

Take that Art Outside the ring, and then you can see it unleashed into what it was meant to be. A deadly extremely violent method to subdue are kill another person or persons.

I’m no expert in either field but I’ve dabbed a little in both. I’m a Green Belt in MCMAP for what that’s worth.
However I have read about the styles and have seen quite a few street fights. Some with lame as Karate Guru’s who got beat down, and some where your MMA Guru’s got punched in the throat, eye gouged, right crossed, and then chocked out and stomped on. So the above is written on that perspective.

MMA – Sport/ Some real Life Value
Martial Arts – No Sport/ Absolute Real Life value
Don’t judge Martial Arts by what you see on YouTube during their competitions. That’s more of a formal thing at best.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

What your saying has some validity but not all MMA has rules like the UFC, they do vary. I also thing striking is striking a guy who can strike like Chuck Lidell would be a mauler in a street fight. Also the Ju Jitsu component of most MMA has proven itself in Street Fight after Street Fight and in No Holds Barred Competition. I think most Martial Arts have far less Street Value than you give them credit for. Tae Kwon Do for instance has been so watered down and sportified its usless as taught in this country. I think the same is true for most types of Karate. My biggest problem with the Mainstream Asian Martial Arts is the lack of live contact. Training against non-resisting oponents in canned scenarios does not teach you to end threats violently. People teaching techniques that are "to deadly to use in practice" are selling snake oil. If the place you train doesn't require you to wear a mouth guard you aren't training for a violent confrontation.

 

[Speedlace]

GSP is far to multi-faceted for say Bruce Lee, an athlete of similar weight.

How so?

Bruce Lee cross trained in Boxing, Judo, Jujitsu, and Wrestling.

A quote from Bruce Lee.
"A man with one year training in boxing and wrestling can beat any martial artist with 15 years of experience."

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Not a big Bruce Lee guru but I doubt he cross trained at the level GSP does. I understand that may sound fan boyish, I'm not, I don't care for the guy but he is a good example. For one grappling is much more evolved now then it was in the 70's.