Gun retrieval.

[bigtattoo79]

Wonder how many of those guns have already been sold with no BOS lol.....
http://www.wwltv.com/mobile/article...le-who-failed-background-checks/507-496734478

 

[themcfarland]

I am very interested in how this plays out. record keeping, databases, all that constitution stuff.

 

[MTregre]

I was under the impression FedGov didn't track or file gun ownership. If they have 10 years worth of sales records and the individuals that purchased them, isn't that practically a registration?

 

[Sulzer]

I was under the impression FedGov didn't track or file gun ownership. If they have 10 years worth of sales records and the individuals that purchased them, isn't that practically a registration?

I believe this is pertaining to background checks that never received a resolution and guns were transferred after the "3 day" limit. I would assume those checks would stay opened indefinitely and if the FBI received new information on them they can go back and let the dealer know that the final decision on that background check was "Deny". I have had a couple of these type request over the past years. Basically the FBI calls the dealer and tells them that background check with the NICS Transaction Number XXXXXXXX is a denial and then they ask if you transferred the gun(s) pertaining to that background check if the 3 day wait has passed. If yes, they ask for a copy of the 4473 and they then do whatever it is on their end to get the guns back. So, it's not a database they are searching of people and the guns they own.

With the exception of purchasing more than one handgun in a running 5 business day period, the FBI does not know what gun(s) you are purchasing. All they know is the dealer is submitting a background check for someone to buy at least one handgun, long gun, or other. The only time the ATF gets to see this info is during an audit, trace request for that particular firearm or when your dealer shuts down and sends his records from the past 20 years in. In the last scenario they are not allowed to compile that information into a database.

 

[themcfarland]

I believe this is pertaining to background checks that never received a resolution and guns were transferred after the "3 day" limit. I would assume those checks would stay opened indefinitely and if the FBI received new information on them they can go back and let the dealer know that the final decision on that background check was "Deny". I have had a couple of these type request over the past years. Basically the FBI calls the dealer and tells them that background check with the NICS Transaction Number XXXXXXXX is a denial and then they ask if you transferred the gun(s) pertaining to that background check if the 3 day wait has passed. If yes, they ask for a copy of the 4473 and they then do whatever it is on their end to get the guns back. So, it's not a database they are searching of people and the guns they own.

With the exception of purchasing more than one handgun in a running 5 business day period, the FBI does not know what gun(s) you are purchasing. All they know is the dealer is submitting a background check for someone to buy at least one handgun, long gun, or other. The only time the ATF gets to see this info is during an audit, trace request for that particular firearm or when your dealer shuts down and sends his records from the past 20 years in. In the last scenario they are not allowed to compile that information into a database.

This is what the law says , I wonder how the retrieval will be done if not voluntake basis. Color me sceptical , but they are the government and a wing of it that I personally do not like.

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[swampfoxx]

Will they be reimbursing people for the confiscated firearms?

 

[thperez1972]

Will they be reimbursing people for the confiscated firearms?

One argument would say no, they are not responsible for reimbursing the people. If you are a prohibited person, it is illegal for you to possess or attempt to possess a weapon. So the act of buying it is a crime. Why should the government reimburse money you spent on illegal activities? If the government confiscates illegal drugs, is the owner entitled to reimbursement for the money he spent on the illegal drugs?

 

[Gator 45/70]

Reimbursement?
That would be about as hard as getting Congress to pay out of their own pockets for sexual harassment by its members.

 

[themcfarland]

Little by Little.. they erode at our Constitutional rights.. pot smokers not motivated enough to move and fight it..

 

[MTregre]

I believe this is pertaining to background checks that never received a resolution and guns were transferred after the "3 day" limit. I would assume those checks would stay opened indefinitely and if the FBI received new information on them they can go back and let the dealer know that the final decision on that background check was "Deny". I have had a couple of these type request over the past years. Basically the FBI calls the dealer and tells them that background check with the NICS Transaction Number XXXXXXXX is a denial and then they ask if you transferred the gun(s) pertaining to that background check if the 3 day wait has passed. If yes, they ask for a copy of the 4473 and they then do whatever it is on their end to get the guns back. So, it's not a database they are searching of people and the guns they own.

With the exception of purchasing more than one handgun in a running 5 business day period, the FBI does not know what gun(s) you are purchasing. All they know is the dealer is submitting a background check for someone to buy at least one handgun, long gun, or other. The only time the ATF gets to see this info is during an audit, trace request for that particular firearm or when your dealer shuts down and sends his records from the past 20 years in. In the last scenario they are not allowed to compile that information into a database.

Ok that makes sense. I too am weary of what FedGov does though. How does an agency sift through gun sales from 20 years without putting them into a spreadsheet or database?
It seems very easy for FedGov to establish a "registration" database if they choose to do so. When governments are easily able to break the law, they tend to do so.

 

[thperez1972]

Ok that makes sense. I too am weary of what FedGov does though. How does an agency sift through gun sales from 20 years without putting them into a spreadsheet or database?
It seems very easy for FedGov to establish a "registration" database if they choose to do so. When governments are easily able to break the law, they tend to do so.

As I understand the process, a gun store must hold on to all of the forms. If they go out of business, they send the forms to an ATF warehouse. Once there, the gov't may be allowed to scan the paperwork but they are not allowed to store it in a searchable format. In other words, the scanned copies come out as pictures and not text.

 

[981GT4]

Little by Little.. they erode at our Constitutional rights.. pot smokers not motivated enough to move and fight it..

Well felons and mentallity ill are not allowed to own a firearm. Pretty simple and is not unconstitutional. Been a law for along time. And one that will never go away.

I mean i may be a minority in this but i personally wouldnt feel comfortable giving mentality unstable persons or violent felons the ability to legally purchase firearms.

apparently you do..

 

[themcfarland]

Well felons and mentallity ill are not allowed to own a firearm. Pretty simple and is not unconstitutional. Been a law for along time. And one that will never go away.

I mean i may be a minority in this but i personally wouldnt feel comfortable giving mentality unstable persons or violent felons the ability to legally purchase firearms.

apparently you do..

Eh. A pot smoker is not by definition mentally Ill. I personally am aware of a combat veteran who had a reaction to malaria treatment that forced him to retire and put him in a wheelchair. He chooses to smoke pot over taking opioids dude to the side effects. BTW. Not to kick that stinking horse but the Constitution did not have a clause in it about mental health. That happened later. By folks like you who drank the coolaid

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[Saintsfan6]

Would you qualify a person *mentally ill*, if after let say the death of a loved one (child, wife, etc) or other life changing event, became depressed, contemplated suicide, and got on anti depressive medications? Where is the line drawn? Does someone have to have paranoid schizophrenia? Does he have to say he wants to harm others in order to be denied a background check? Where is the line drawn?

 

[themcfarland]

Would you qualify a person *mentally ill*, if after let say the death of a loved one (child, wife, etc) or other life changing event, became depressed, contemplated suicide, and got on anti depressive medications? Where is the line drawn? Does someone have to have paranoid schizophrenia? Does he have to say he wants to harm others in order to be denied a background check? Where is the line drawn?

Good questions. I don't personally have an answer. It really depends on if you are affected personally or if it's hypothetical I guess. Myself, I feel as if the gvmt needs to stay out of the way if it's already defined in the Constitution

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[bigtattoo79]

Well felons and mentallity ill are not allowed to own a firearm. Pretty simple and is not unconstitutional. Been a law for along time. And one that will never go away.

I mean i may be a minority in this but i personally wouldnt feel comfortable giving mentality unstable persons or violent felons the ability to legally purchase firearms.

apparently you do..

Pretty sure the law bans all felons not just violent felons.

 

[dougstump]

Pretty sure the law bans all felons not just violent felons.

It actually bans those who have been convicted of a crime that is punishable by one year in jail. Some misdemeanors qualify for this. Doesn't matter how much time you actually served, the maximum sentence is what counts.

 

[bigtattoo79]

It actually bans those who have been convicted of a crime that is punishable by one year in jail. Some misdemeanors qualify for this. Doesn't matter how much time you actually served, the maximum sentence is what counts.

My understanding has always been that the only misdemeanor that bans gun ownership is DV. What other ones are there?

 

[dougstump]

My understanding has always been that the only misdemeanor that bans gun ownership is DV. What other ones are there?

Can't give you a list, it would vary depending on the local/state laws. But any crime punishable by a year would do it.

 

[bigtattoo79]

Can't give you a list, it would vary depending on the local/state laws. But any crime punishable by a year would do it.

You are correct it would take lots of research. I’ve always thought DV was the only one but you are the second person to tell me otherwise.