Guys using the sig arm brace really need to read this.

[Emperor]

welp, freedive wins.

thats the absolute stupidest thing I've seen on the internet in at least a week. but, it does prove that if laws are the limitation- they will be circumvented.

Is that Dentist Approved? I don't think I'll try that on my Beowulf.

That is seriously the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Nothing like felt recoil to the jawbone!

He's trying to be a show off! He knows damn well, that device should only be used in concert with this protective shooting gear. What a tool!

 

[calcagno45]

That's up there with the stupidest things I've seen on the internet... I wonder if it's approved for AR10's also

 

[VeedUp]

I knew this would happen sooner or later.

JR1572

Said it when it first came out, this will not last.

 

[Patchgunner]

This is one of those things from watching the different ar forums is dividing the community somewhat. One thing that is fairly disturbing to see is some of the "nfa tactical" community (think m4c) that is finding this either comical, predicted, or should have happened sooner. Many people need to take a step back and look at the situation and all of the facts. So let's review this situation: ATF approves the sb15 in the original letter to the designer who later sold to sig. To summarize it states that since the intended design is not a shoulder stock or intended to be a shoulder stock, having this on your pistol will not reclassify it as a nfa Weapon. Sgt Bradley letter: ATF states why the brace was approved (not designed or intended to be a stock) And also mentions ar15 extension tubes and how the ar15 pistol is classified as a pistol. The ATF therefore states that since the ATF rules on design and things such the sig brace and other extension accessories are NOT considered stocks having an ar15 at your shoulder cannot change classification and I quote the letter "per federal law". Now on to this current letter. Special attention should be made that information has surfaced that the individual (cannot verify the accuracy of this) who wrote the ATF stated to them that his intentions were to build an sbr with the brace. Intentions are everything. The way I read this letter is that if you set about to build an sbr than if u fail to fill out and wait for an approved form 1 and stamp even if you use the brace since you intended to build an sbr than u just violated regulations. Now let's say that you set out to build an ar15 pistol and do so to every letter of the law (as many have) and just happen to use a buffer tube accessory such as the sb 15 or other devices. You are 100% legal and will not be judged by how you hold it. Are you confused yet ? So, obviously in my humble non college educated opinion, the ATF obviously believes in magic. They obviously have a crystal ball if they wish to start ruling on intentions vs design. How two ppl could use 100% legal parts to build a 100% legal weapon in two different scenarios except one plans on holding them wrong (which ATF in Bradley letter same guy who signed the current one look at the signatures) stated is not how the ATF rules (only design) per federal law. Now obviously I'm just uneducated and not a lawyer and I am simply stating my opinion derived from reading the magical genius of the ATF, but one could get the opinion that the ATF is simply trying to back pedal bc they made (in their eyes) a mistake. Now these (somewhat contradicting) letters are simply that, letters. However with past instances these letters have been shown to carry weight as the ATF pretty much rules on things of this nature as they wish. Could they ban sig sb15s? Yes but looking at history it probably wouldn't be so much of a ban but either reclassifying the brace or ar15 pistol. And also in the past they open up registration (if I recall free in one case forgot which one though) so that owners can conform to the new laws. Now before I get flamed, I built an ar15 pistol my intentions were to build an ar15 pistol per every letter in the law and I also take advantage of having a receiver extension accessory that is the sb15. MY INTENTIONS WERE TO BUILD AN AR15 pistol. Do you understand yet? Lol. Now Let's address something else... How the ar15 pistol community is handling this. The sky is not falling, this is simply a product of the brace being marketed as a sbr work around. Well guess what fellow brace owners, WE DO NOT OWN SBRS we own ar15 pistols. AND THE BRACE IS NOT A LOOP HOLE, it is a buffer tube accessory. Honestly if the brace gets reclassified (it's very possible) it will be bc of dumb ppl that marketed the brace wrong or opened their mouths to much, and than the real jack wagons that wrote articles on blogs or posted you tube videos describing what a great and effective nfa work around this is. Now as far as this sky is falling approach why the hell are you even surprised, it's all just a classic sheeple media response by the uneducated gun community (who many obviously don't stay current on ATF reg knowledge). It may also be inspired frenzy for marketing , who knows anything is possible. My only humble advice is read the letters, and don't listen to other opinions when you read them. I honestly couldn't give a rats @$$ what a gun reviewing blog has to say abt legal matters and neither should you. The only reading I would do is by the super duper educated legal people. Example, these cats wrote a few good articles over it http://blog.princelaw.com. But I don't personally think that this will be what forces changes. I think that the aow classification will force changes that will involve the brace and ar15 pistol and here's why: what I am talking abt is the ATF reg that states that a pistol under the overall length of 26" is considered concealable and therefore cannot have a vertical foregrip without registering it as an aol. It goes on to say that a pistol of at least 26" of overall length may have a vertical foregrip without being reclassified nfa aow it just cannot be concealed and is now a "firearm". So what we have is tons of pics and videos and products being advertised with not only braces but vertical for grips. Now before the flaming begins, I am as pro 2a as it gets and I believe that the NFA, GCA, and mg ban are all unconstitutional. However until we the people make the correct changes during election time I will follow the letter of the law to a t. So any ar15 pistol I build (like my current) as I think these little bastards are pretty damn cool will be built as an ar15 pistol 100% legal and my intentions are 100% legal and I do enjoy using buffer tube accessories like the sb 15. Remember "intentions" are everything. Whether we may or may not agree with it is something that can only be changed in the court of law or voting. So I sincerely hope people smarten up abt how the brace is spoke of. But I also think the ATF would have no grounds in court against an "evil" brace shoulderer with the current letters and contradictions. But who knows sadly ATF Does what they please. Hopefully some of the current lawsuits such as sigs and the mg ones will help put a metaphorical chain on the bear. Btw I hope the post 86 ban gets repealed and screw all the nfa elitists who don't wanna worry abt losing "investments". At this time the gun community (even the super duper tactical secret squirrel gun store commandos who train every day and only think guns are tools and if you don't sbr your not a real gun fighter needs to come together and stay united and remember we are all in this together in the face of tyranny:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

- Martin Niemöller


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rcm192]

LOL... Of course I have one (along with two SB47s) and do like it/them... however I may be selling it soon. I just received my MVB ARC stock in the mail last week. Now I'm just waiting on my stamp to put it on!

http://www.amazon.com/MVB-ARC-Stock/dp/B00PAWMJS4/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Why the MVB you ask? Well let me explain!

1. The other compact stocks out there impact the BAD lever and can not be fully collapsed.
2. The MVB stock has a push button (similar to the magazine release) that collapses and extends the stock.
3. The MVB stock is manufactured from 6061 Aluminium and 17/4 ph Stainless Steel... not polymer.
4. The only down side is that is has only two positions where others have 3 and 4. I did contact MVB though and ask them why this is... and their response was that they designed the stock for quick reaction, rapid deployment, and concealment. When you need it, you simply slap it open and start laying hate... no time for adjustments. Now, in an instant combat situation, I would have to agree with them... however, when you have time to prepare for use, having the ability to adjust the stock would have been nice.
5. Cost... its cheaper than most of the others.
6. It doesn't require you to purchase a new bolt assembly (others do).
7. Noise. It isn't anywhere near as loud (or so I've read) as a regular spring and buffer slapping around in the tube.
8. It will look really cool with my suppressor! haha...

I'd really like to see this in person. I plan on SBRing my pistol and I favor this design. Im also in NOLA. Wanna meet up at the range when you get it?

 

[madwabbit]

This is one of those things from watching the different ar forums........

Your speech sells well to anyone that doesn't know better. A true brace would have been exponentially better by being shaped as a BRACE, leveraging vertically against the brachioradialis. This is how it is marketed to be used, despite it leveraging horizontally below the brachio apex = zero real support:

Instead, its shaped like a stock and works far better like this:

Look dude, I'm against it being made illegal too- but lets not call a hammer a snowblower. Just be straight up about what it is and fight it on its own merit. "it can be used however you want and its none of your business" It's sad that a bunch of idiots broadcasted this and marketed it as "the loophole". If they hadn't, we'd have an excellent toy to use however we saw fit. Now it looks like they are going byebye. Unfortunately, thats exactly what it has become known as: the loophole.


Bayoushooter minigame: who can spot the illegal gun in the photos above?

 

[Jasarii]

Yup, Thats the first thing that jumped out in the pics...the VFG on the pistol.

 

[madwabbit]

Yup, Thats the first thing that jumped out in the pics...the VFG on the pistol.

winner.

$15.00 part renders entire thing illegal. and FYI- they are FAR more concerned about that 15.00 vfg than the 200.00 brace on the backend.

 

[Neil09]

Which makes it a SBR, correct?

 

[madwabbit]

Which makes it a SBR, correct?

technically, yup.

 

[Vermiform]

Which makes it a SBR, correct?

No, makes it an AOW.

 

[madwabbit]

No, makes it an AOW.

This is correct, I responded hastily. If the firearm is under 26", adding a vfg makes it an AOW.

 

[bsoileau24]

What if its over 26 inches?

 

[madwabbit]

What if its over 26 inches?

it makes it awesome.

 

[rcm192]

What if its over 26 inches?

doesnt it become a title 1 firearm? or something like that if it meets the 26" OAL requirement, simliar concept to the 14" bbl Mossberg 500 build one can do.

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

 

[Hattrick 22]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...r-review-sb-tactical-sb-47-stabilizing-brace/

PhoenixNFA says:
December 18, 2013 at 16:15

Start Qoute "ATF Opinion letters are only for those whom they are addressed.

Other than that, it is entirely up to the arresting officer (read state NFA laws some time. Even if you are within your rights, you CAN spend a night in jail.), and beyond that, if the ATF in the future deems them stocks. Welp. Sorry.

Don’t look to sig or century for a refund. They won’t do it.

Neat concept though. Hope it stays legal." End Qoute





Was looking around and seen this reply I think it was covered already in the thread but intentions are all that matter are they not? If i were to buy one with the intention of using it as it was designed would it make any difference?

 

[kingfhb]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...r-review-sb-tactical-sb-47-stabilizing-brace/

PhoenixNFA says:
December 18, 2013 at 16:15

Start Qoute "ATF Opinion letters are only for those whom they are addressed.

Other than that, it is entirely up to the arresting officer (read state NFA laws some time. Even if you are within your rights, you CAN spend a night in jail.), and beyond that, if the ATF in the future deems them stocks. Welp. Sorry.

Don’t look to sig or century for a refund. They won’t do it.

Neat concept though. Hope it stays legal." End Qoute





Was looking around and seen this reply I think it was covered already in the thread but intentions are all that matter are they not? If i were to buy one with the intention of using it as it was designed would it make any difference?

I wonder how that works if a pistol was purchased from Century with the Sig brace pre-installed from the factory, if the brace is reclassified as a stock? Are those weapons then grandfathered in (Though then would actually be considered SBRs)? Or does Sig then have to refund them... the cost of the brace or the entire weapon? Or then is the owner just SOL and have to register them as an SBR?

I wonder.

 

[dixiejarhead]

SBRs are a PITA. If you never move or take them across state lines they are not bad, but I tell you if you do the former two, it truly is a pita.

Besides, if you SBR an AR pistol, you still will spend extra $$$ on a stock... Maybe not as much as the brace. Also if they reclassify them, they may waive the $200 fee, as it has happened before when they reclassified the street sweeper and striker and USAS shotguns as DD's, the fee was waived if you registered it within a certain amount of time.

 

[olivs260]

It's funny how so much depends on "how it got to be that way". Install this on a pistol and shoot it Mega-Man style, and it's fine. Install it on a pistol that's registered as an SBR, and put a VFG on it, and it's fine. Install it on a rifle, it's fine. But heaven forbid you install it on a pistol that isn't registered, but has a VFG. And now, don't you DARE touch it with your shoulder!

The BATFE is ridiculous.

 

[madwabbit]

It's funny how so much depends on "how it got to be that way". Install this on a pistol and shoot it Mega-Man style, and it's fine. Install it on a pistol that's registered as an SBR, and put a VFG on it, and it's fine. Install it on a rifle, it's fine. But heaven forbid you install it on a pistol that isn't registered, but has a VFG. And now, don't you DARE touch it with your shoulder!

The BATFE is ridiculous.

pretty good summary.