How do you "work up" a load?

[Sugarbug]

Alright. So moving at the end of the week and will finally be able to move my Dillon 550b from next to my bed to the garage and get some use out of the damn thing.

I have the Lyman reloading manual (49th ed) and there are all kinds starting points, but I don't know how to work up the load. How do you know if you need more powder? I imagine the bullet not making it out of the barrel would be a good indication, but what other criteria do you look at when assessing a load?

I'll be reloading 9mm for range use and 223 for range and hunting (heavier bullet for hunting).

 

[SpeedRacer]

I usually start with a little porn.

 

[Sugarbug]

I usually start with a little porn.

Lol. That made me giggle, but those loads I'm an expert at. Trying to branch out.

 

[Leadfoot]

Yeah this thread is a let down.

 

[Sugarbug]

Lol. It's in the "Reloading" section, damnit!

 

[deadidunn]

Start at the minimum and work to max. Look for signs of over pressure on the casing and primer. If you find your best group low or in the middle and when you get hotter it gets worse, just go back down and stick to that. Your lyman book should show pics of over pressure signs. I work to max by .5 grains, once your get closer to the top, you can go less if you prefer. Also, a chronograph is a very useful tool to have so you can compare loads to the book and to how much velocity your increases gain.

 

[occunknown]

Whatever you do do not under load around!! It will cause big big problems. Pick the bullet and decide the powder you want to use. Faster is not always better. With all the books and supplier pages you can see what the max load is. Then reduce it by 10% and load five rounds. I then load in graduating increments of 10th a grain up and down and see what the gun likes until I get the desired grouping. Each gun is different and the same load will give different results in each gun.
Different powders and primers will vary the results on each load so as you can see there are a lot of variables in reloading. But I reload to get the performance I want out of a bullet and not to save money. Good luck and when in doubt ask a question and be safe.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Lol. It's in the "Reloading" section, damnit!

I can do that too, but it has been taking longer to reload the older I get. Most of the time I just fall asleep.

 

[Sugarbug]

I can do that too, but it has been taking longer to reload the older I get. Most of the time I just fall asleep.

Damn. Well played, sir.

Thanks for the tips, guys!

 

[enutees]

Also, post what bullet and powder you plan on using. I'm sure one of us has tried it before and could give you more specifics. I have picked several loads based on others loads (not Speedracer's kind). There are several people, Vigilante Sniper comes to mind, that have posted quite a bit of 9mm data here on the site complete with bullet, powder, velocity etc.

 

[Sugarbug]

Alright. For 223 I am looking at either Sierra SMP #1370, 63 gr or Sierra HPBT #1380, 69gr (Hollow point blunt tip??... I can't find where it says what HPBT means in this manual)

Both will be using Varget powder as that is the one common to both of them in the manual I have

I'm hoping these will be sufficient for hunting... I know 223 is a small caliber, but expect I should be able to take a white tail with it as long as I do my part.

For the range, I just plan on using lead cast bullets. There's information on a couple in the Lyman book.

To simplify matters, I plan to use Remington cases and remington 7 1/2 primers as that's what the manual used for their load data.

I'll also be loading 9mm and just plan to use cast bullets. Any recommendations on this are appreciated, but there's several listed in the manual to try using Federal cases and CCI 500 primers.

 

[Gator 45/70]

Start here...Lot's of good info...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZrbv_8kx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkOPdoEazcs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzrvZ0MLkwI

 

[shamrock]

HPBT hollow point boat tail

 

[themcfarland]

the missing element is a chrono..

 

[enutees]

I haven't loaded .223 in quite a few years. 9mm I load quite a bit. In my experience the type of brass and primer make a very small difference in the loads. I used mixed brass and either Winchester, federal, or CCI primers based on price.

For lead bullets I suggest trying Solo 1000. I really like it. I've loaded 125's at 4.4 grains and 135's at 4.1. OAL of 1.125. This gets a 970 fps out of my CZ's for the 135's and 1020ish for the 125's.

Plenty of other powders are great as well. I've used Winchester 231, Unique, 700x, and E3. They all shoot well.

 

[Sin-ster]

The first step is identifying what you want to accomplish with the loads. Be specific and it'll be easier-- and don't forget to include in your assessment whether or not you plan to run the same load in multiple firearms. I cannot stress enough-- each gun, barrel, etc. is different, ESPECIALLY in regards to rifles. (It sounds like you've done this already for .223, so that's good. You might wanna investigate the projectiles commonly used for hunting-- neither that you list are typically selected for that purpose. Look into bonded JSP's instead.) Obviously, you'll want accuracy-- but for your purpose, you might be looking at certain velocity windows necessary for terminal performance on fleshy targets. Depending on the scope of your estimated ranges, you may want something that shoots flat, is less effected by wind drift, etc. There's... a lot to it.

Pistol is a bit easier, but that's not to say that you should ignore the details and specificity. Sure, you can work up something that's pretty accurate and works the action-- but "working up a load" implies getting things just the way you want them.

If you're going to shoot competition, your first concern will be Power Factor. Your bullet/powder combination has to make a certain PF to either qualify you for a score (Minor) or alter the scoring value of hits on the target (Major). It's calculated Bullet Weight x Velocity / 1000.

Again, accuracy will be of some concern-- you wanna know that when you miss, it's shooter error and not just a crummy load. Getting to 3" or less @ 25 yards isn't hard with a decent projectile and the proper powder, but if you wanna eek out more, it's going to be a trial-and-error experiment. If you follow the evidence provided by the countless folks that have come before you, chances are that you'll shorten the learning curve-- although again, every gun is different.

Flat/soft shooting might be an important thing if you want something pleasant to take to the range, or need as little perceived recoil as possible for the sake of getting hits at speed. Generally speaking, heavier bullets and faster powders are the proper combination-- coupled with some spring adjustments within the gun itself.

Or you may wish to replicate the feel of your self defense/personal protection load, for the sake of training. In most cases, you can get pretty darn close without risking over pressure-- look for a starting point based on the similarity of the components (i.e. 124 grain JHP) and go from there. Once again, a lot of people have come before you and Google is your friend.

Just be VERY cautious about taking information from the web and running out to try it. Look at those recipes as suggestions-- find pertinent data on the components, then start from the minimum load and work your way up from there.

A chrono, as noted above, is a handy tool and may very well be necessary depending on what you're trying to accomplish. If "close enough" is acceptable, you can get away with not having one and just look for effect on target, how well the gun cycles, how well the load "shoots" in terms of feel, and by examining the spent cases for any unwanted pressure signs or indication that something funny is going on-- i.e. extra-sooty, unburned powder, etc.

Sounds like a lot of complicated stuff, eh? Well, it is! But the only way to really learn is to dive right in-- albeit cautiously. You're a pretty clever guy, so you've got a leg up on the situation already. Look at it this way-- some true morons have been rolling their own rounds since before our parents were born; if they can do it, so can you!

 

[Sugarbug]

The first step is identifying what you want to accomplish with the loads. Be specific and it'll be easier-- and don't forget to include in your assessment whether or not you plan to run the same load in multiple firearms. I cannot stress enough-- each gun, barrel, etc. is different, ESPECIALLY in regards to rifles. (It sounds like you've done this already for .223, so that's good. You might wanna investigate the projectiles commonly used for hunting-- neither that you list are typically selected for that purpose. Look into bonded JSP's instead.) Obviously, you'll want accuracy-- but for your purpose, you might be looking at certain velocity windows necessary for terminal performance on fleshy targets. Depending on the scope of your estimated ranges, you may want something that shoots flat, is less effected by wind drift, etc. There's... a lot to it.

Pistol is a bit easier, but that's not to say that you should ignore the details and specificity. Sure, you can work up something that's pretty accurate and works the action-- but "working up a load" implies getting things just the way you want them.

If you're going to shoot competition, your first concern will be Power Factor. Your bullet/powder combination has to make a certain PF to either qualify you for a score (Minor) or alter the scoring value of hits on the target (Major). It's calculated Bullet Weight x Velocity / 1000.

Again, accuracy will be of some concern-- you wanna know that when you miss, it's shooter error and not just a crummy load. Getting to 3" or less @ 25 yards isn't hard with a decent projectile and the proper powder, but if you wanna eek out more, it's going to be a trial-and-error experiment. If you follow the evidence provided by the countless folks that have come before you, chances are that you'll shorten the learning curve-- although again, every gun is different.

Flat/soft shooting might be an important thing if you want something pleasant to take to the range, or need as little perceived recoil as possible for the sake of getting hits at speed. Generally speaking, heavier bullets and faster powders are the proper combination-- coupled with some spring adjustments within the gun itself.

Or you may wish to replicate the feel of your self defense/personal protection load, for the sake of training. In most cases, you can get pretty darn close without risking over pressure-- look for a starting point based on the similarity of the components (i.e. 124 grain JHP) and go from there. Once again, a lot of people have come before you and Google is your friend.

Just be VERY cautious about taking information from the web and running out to try it. Look at those recipes as suggestions-- find pertinent data on the components, then start from the minimum load and work your way up from there.

A chrono, as noted above, is a handy tool and may very well be necessary depending on what you're trying to accomplish. If "close enough" is acceptable, you can get away with not having one and just look for effect on target, how well the gun cycles, how well the load "shoots" in terms of feel, and by examining the spent cases for any unwanted pressure signs or indication that something funny is going on-- i.e. extra-sooty, unburned powder, etc.

Sounds like a lot of complicated stuff, eh? Well, it is! But the only way to really learn is to dive right in-- albeit cautiously. You're a pretty clever guy, so you've got a leg up on the situation already. Look at it this way-- some true morons have been rolling their own rounds since before our parents were born; if they can do it, so can you!

Really appreciate the thought-out response. I do need to do more research into what constitutes a good hunting round. I was just going by what was in the manual.

You think I'm looking in the proper weight range? My DD is 1:7 twist as I understood that twist rate is better at stabilizing heavier bullets, but never found out just how heavy I can go.

For now, the 9mm can definitely be "close enough." I'm just going to be using it to practice fundamentals, etc. I'm thinking about getting a little furnace and just casting my own bullets. Thoughts?

 

[themcfarland]

for the proper length to run anything above 72 grains you will run into trouble with a compressed charges to make it fit and feed properly..
Keep in mind, that just for 556 rifle.

If you are hunting in Louisiana, please remember NO FMJ..

each maker has their own recommendation for velocity to achieve proper behavior .. even the same weight, size, and length varies..

For home casting , any old cast iron pot with a turkey fryer will work, just do it outdoors and be safe.. Lots of lead I used to pick up had all kinds of crud in it, tape, rocks, sand, just junk.. it would cook down and separate and I would skim off the crud and then make ingots.. each one being a different batch and somewhat different in density. then I would add them at a later time, to make up some bullets. its hot, dirty, nasty and dangerous as far as lead fumes and risk of being burned.. but cheap.

 

[Sugarbug]

for the proper length to run anything above 72 grains you will run into trouble with a compressed charges to make it fit and feed properly..
Keep in mind, that just for 556 rifle.

If you are hunting in Louisiana, please remember NO FMJ..

each maker has their own recommendation for velocity to achieve proper behavior .. even the same weight, size, and length varies..

For home casting , any old cast iron pot with a turkey fryer will work, just do it outdoors and be safe.. Lots of lead I used to pick up had all kinds of crud in it, tape, rocks, sand, just junk.. it would cook down and separate and I would skim off the crud and then make ingots.. each one being a different batch and somewhat different in density. then I would add them at a later time, to make up some bullets. its hot, dirty, nasty and dangerous as far as lead fumes and risk of being burned.. but cheap.

Thanks. I'll probably buy premade lead ingots just to have the uniformity in density between batches. Are there moulds i can buy that make more than 2the or 4the bullets at a time?

So excited to have this house. If we removed all the bedrooms it would be about the size of the apartment we're in now.

As for proper length, we are talking barrel length correct? Ie if I were to attempt a 77gr bullet, my 16" barrel would be the limiting factor, correct?

 

[scooterj]

As for proper length, we are talking barrel length correct? Ie if I were to attempt a 77gr bullet, my 16" barrel would be the limiting factor, correct?

Chamber length and magazine length are usually the limiting factors in 223.
I can only load 2 or 3 of my Sierra 77gr loads in a mag before they get hung up. When determining OAL, you must keep the bullet off the lands of the barrel. It ain't fun to have a round not go into battery and when you TRY to eject it, the bullet stays in the barrel and the powder goes all in the trigger parts. Now you have a big, dirty, funked up paper weight.
If you don't have access to a chronograph, either buy one or make arrangements to use one during load development.