How is this legal? 40 cars stopped and 20 innocent people handcuffed...

[Leonidas]

More background on the robber. They caught him by GPS baited $.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2012/06/13/opus-for-bee-keeper-bandit/

also

http://www.omniaveteranova.com/wp/category/christian-paetsch/

The second deals with the potential 4th Amendment issues. Possibly even leading to exclusion of some evidence.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

"Within 17 minutes of the robbery, police pin down a white Ford Expedition in the intersection they have commandeered. Their strategy, for whatever Constitutional questions it raises, works. It is just not going to be easy robbing banks anymore."


Imma tell ya, This would not have been a pleasant thing for *any* one if I had been one of the innocent people cuffed for 2 hours on a curb. I think it's sublimely out of line.

 

[oleheat]

"Within 17 minutes of the robbery, police pin down a white Ford Expedition in the intersection they have commandeered. Their strategy, for whatever Constitutional questions it raises, works. It is just not going to be easy robbing banks anymore."


Imma tell ya, This would not have been a pleasant thing for *any* one if I had been one of the innocent people cuffed for 2 hours on a curb. I think it's sublimely out of line.

Honestly, I think this case can be broken down mainly into two different opinions: Those who would be PO'd outright, and those who aren't- but would be if it were themselves or their family members sitting on the curb for two hours.

I just don't see any way around it.



If I'm wrong and that's not the case.....well....I can live with being told I'm just not as understanding as those who disagree.

 

[Leonidas]

"Within 17 minutes of the robbery, police pin down a white Ford Expedition in the intersection they have commandeered. Their strategy, for whatever Constitutional questions it raises, works. It is just not going to be easy robbing banks anymore."


Imma tell ya, This would not have been a pleasant thing for *any* one if I had been one of the innocent people cuffed for 2 hours on a curb. I think it's sublimely out of line.

Do I foresee an added charge of disturbing the peace?

 

[Summit_Ace]

If you don't have an issue with all LEOs, why do you attack LEOs in nearly every thread about them? You say they should be judged to a higher standard, however I think all men are equal under the law. Maybe this is the issue, perhaps your expectations are too high to be reached. You can't expect people to make the perfect decision in every situation. In this situation I would say they made a good call overall, but were bad in the details. They were too heavy handed in the execution, but I believe they were justified in stopping and questioning them.

It may have the appearance that I attack LEOs in "every" thread but generally it is threads where a LEO screwed up. Unfortunately they do seem to get more bad publicity then good. I am sure if you looked you would find where I have spoken kindly of LEOs.

 

[Jack]

It may have the appearance that I attack LEOs in "every" thread but generally it is threads where a LEO screwed up. Unfortunately they do seem to get more bad publicity then good. I am sure if you looked you would find where I have spoken kindly of LEOs.

That is why i said nearly.

 

[Summit_Ace]

I would like to hear this story. Maybe it will shed light on your obvious disdain for police.

A few years ago when I lived in NY I was pulled over for speeding. I have no doubt that I was speeding as I was driving a car that the speedometer worked when it felt like it. When the officer asked for DL and reg. I gave hime my reg. and placed my hands on steering wheel. I then told him I was armed and motioned with my opposite hand where the gun was. With his hand on his gun he ordered me out of the car and to place my hands on the roof. I was very cooperative as this is something that LEOs do not run in to a lot in NY. He was very tense and almost yelling. I had to tell him at least twice where my gun was. After he secured my weapon he asked if I had a permit. I told him yes and had to tell him 3 times where it was. The third time I took my hand off the roof and pointed at it, as it was in my shirt pocket on the passengers seat. This was not a good idea! After he retrieved my permit he asked if I had been drinking. At first I told him no then immediately told him that I had consumed alcohol that day. He asked what I had to drink and I told him 2 1/2 beers over about a 4-5 hour period. I knew I was cold sober as I am not an idiot. I was given a field sobriety test I did everything with out a hitch.I was placed in his car in hand cuffs. I asked him I was being arrested. He said he did not know because he did not know how much I had to drink. At this point I demanded a breathalyzer. He told me there was one on the way. A second officer showed up to the scene I believe it was his supervisor. This I was very happy about as he seemed reasonable. I had found out later the LEO that pulled me over I believe had been on the force for about 2 months. The second officer searched my car and gave the magazine from my 1911 to the arresting LEO. He then informed me that the mag was loaded with HYDRA-SHOCKS and that those were illegal. When I questioned him he said well no but they were COP KILLERS.

Here is where it gets interesting. I never got my breathalyzer. With me sitting in the back of the car the other LEO comes up and asks what the arresting LEO is doing. He says he he is going to arrest me. The older guy says, you can't arrest him. Well why not? He is carrying a gun. He has a permit for the gun says the older LEO. Well I am going to confiscate his gun. You can't confiscate his gun. Why not? Asks the younger. Because HE HAS A PERMIT FOR THE GUN says the older. the situation ends with me on my way with gun and speeding ticket in hand.

When the officer handcuffed me he did that little extra squeeze that anyone who has been trained in the proper use of cuffs(which I have) knows not to do. This is one reason why cuffs are equipped with a double lock. Being helpless in the back of a car on a back road of upstate NY with an officer I thought to be irrational I did not want to say anything about the pain I was in. As I drove home my thumb started to go numb and decided I should go to the hospital to get checked out. The doctor told me that the tendon in my wrist going to my thumb was crushed.I spent about 2 years in pain because of that injury as I made my living with my hands as a construction worker.

But it gets better. The next day I did two things I called my local sheriff to tell him what happened. He told me that I had done what I was supposed to and that he was just over zealous and he would probably here nothing about it. I wish that were true. The second thing I did was file a complaint at the dept where the incident happened. As I thought this officer was a loose cannon. I mean who sits there and argues with their superior on why they can't take some one to jail? This in hind site was a mistake cause boy did he get even. Three days after I filed my complaint he wrote a letter to the issuing judge on my permit. About 2 weeks later I got notice to surrender all my handguns. It took me 9 months to get my guns back thanks partially to the sheriff showing up to my hearing.

After two years of pain lose of wages and losing my guns for 9 month has my opinion of law enforcement has changed? Yes

No I did NOT get a motorcycle

 

[Yrdawg]

A few years ago when I lived in NY I was pulled over for speeding. I have no doubt that I was speeding as I was driving a car that the speedometer worked when it felt like it. When the officer asked for DL and reg. I gave hime my reg. and placed my hands on steering wheel. I then told him I was armed and motioned with my opposite hand where the gun was. With his hand on his gun he ordered me out of the car and to place my hands on the roof. I was very cooperative as this is something that LEOs do not run in to a lot in NY. He was very tense and almost yelling. I had to tell him at least twice where my gun was. After he secured my weapon he asked if I had a permit. I told him yes and had to tell him 3 times where it was. The third time I took my hand off the roof and pointed at it, as it was in my shirt pocket on the passengers seat. This was not a good idea! After he retrieved my permit he asked if I had been drinking. At first I told him no then immediately told him that I had consumed alcohol that day. He asked what I had to drink and I told him 2 1/2 beers over about a 4-5 hour period. I knew I was cold sober as I am not an idiot. I was given a field sobriety test I did everything with out a hitch.I was placed in his car in hand cuffs. I asked him I was being arrested. He said he did not know because he did not know how much I had to drink. At this point I demanded a breathalyzer. He told me there was one on the way. A second officer showed up to the scene I believe it was his supervisor. This I was very happy about as he seemed reasonable. I had found out later the LEO that pulled me over I believe had been on the force for about 2 months. The second officer searched my car and gave the magazine from my 1911 to the arresting LEO. He then informed me that the mag was loaded with HYDRA-SHOCKS and that those were illegal. When I questioned him he said well no but they were COP KILLERS.

Here is where it gets interesting. I never got my breathalyzer. With me sitting in the back of the car the other LEO comes up and asks what the arresting LEO is doing. He says he he is going to arrest me. The older guy says, you can't arrest him. Well why not? He is carrying a gun. He has a permit for the gun says the older LEO. Well I am going to confiscate his gun. You can't confiscate his gun. Why not? Asks the younger. Because HE HAS A PERMIT FOR THE GUN says the older. the situation ends with me on my way with gun and speeding ticket in hand.

When the officer handcuffed me he did that little extra squeeze that anyone who has been trained in the proper use of cuffs(which I have) knows not to do. This is one reason why cuffs are equipped with a double lock. Being helpless in the back of a car on a back road of upstate NY with an officer I thought to be irrational I did not want to say anything about the pain I was in. As I drove home my thumb started to go numb and decided I should go to the hospital to get checked out. The doctor told me that the tendon in my wrist going to my thumb was crushed.I spent about 2 years in pain because of that injury as I made my living with my hands as a construction worker.

But it gets better. The next day I did two things I called my local sheriff to tell him what happened. He told me that I had done what I was supposed to and that he was just over zealous and he would probably here nothing about it. I wish that were true. The second thing I did was file a complaint at the dept where the incident happened. As I thought this officer was a loose cannon. I mean who sits there and argues with their superior on why they can't take some one to jail? This in hind site was a mistake cause boy did he get even. Three days after I filed my complaint he wrote a letter to the issuing judge on my permit. About 2 weeks later I got notice to surrender all my handguns. It took me 9 months to get my guns back thanks partially to the sheriff showing up to my hearing.

After two years of pain lose of wages and losing my guns for 9 month has my opinion of law enforcement has changed? Yes

No I did NOT get a motorcycle

When I bitch about cops I never mean the ones who are on this board, I don't even know them. If they were the sort who do crazy **** they would probably not be on a gun board with non cops.

What happened to you in NY is a crime from what I see, but it's like having a gun in KaliforniA. A terrible thing to have and a terrible place to have it in.

The funny thing about the situations where power is abused is that the people who weren't wronged will usually just say oh live wid it, but when they get their hand slammed in the door... oh boy it's Christmas.