How would have you responded to the Colorado shooter?

[JadeRaven]

Even if it was armor, without plates shots to the chest would be pretty incapacitating.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah....The graphic (which was apparently from a British media source) seemed to focus on the term "ballistic" material an awful lot. I agree- I'd like to know just how "bulletproof" his armor really was.

I look at this terrible event (and others like it), and mostly it reminds me of why I tend to avoid areas where it is either illegal for me to carry or otherwise not permitted. It's a nightmare scenario that none of us want to be in, something like this. Do I feel like I could have made a difference? Hell guys, there's just no easy way to answer that. We would all like to think that we could- myself included. But I'm no Superman.

What I do know is that being UNARMED in that situation is a guarantee that you are at the total mercy of of the evil one who is. I would much rather have even a slim chance of survival than none at all. Having a firearm in your possession makes that at least possible.

 

[goteron]

Wondering what he had on after the fact probably doesnt help. From what I understand he was standing on the screen stage. So it would have been difficult to tell exactly what he was wearing anyway. I agree with the first part of sinsters first statement.

FWIW I don't think he was wearing a vest or plates. And rounds are target are rounds on target. Not shooting back isnt going to help. Might as well see the dot and shoot as effectively as possible.

I wouldnt have brought my children to this movie, so they wouldnt have been there. Anyone I would have gone to that movie with would have been carrying as well.

I find it hard to believe he could have identified a shooter in the crowd and selectively engaged him/her.

Now I know why standing on an ammo can is important.

I think stress innoculation is an excellent training tool. I know the ADVGRP classes have some physical aspects that increase stress.

Nate, maybe we need to get an ergometer out there and have students use that before firing for accuracy...

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Whether he had armor on or not shouldn't change anyone's plan. You engage him and make him start deciding things like; is someone shooting at me? Am I being shot? Do I really wanna die today? Where is the person shooting me? When he starts making those calculations he is less able to murder.

Think about the engagement how long is the shot back row to fire exit? What's your failure to stop tactic? From 30 or 40 yards away can you make Pelvic Girdle hits under stress?

 

[kcinnick]

Put as much concrete between the shooter and my family. There is lots of concrete to get behind in a theater, I think it would be better to jump the rail and possibly break a bone or two than get shot. If possible, once behind COVER, return fire.

However, when I went to see Batman, I left my 5 year old with a baby sitter... I saw the first two movies, I knew what the last one was going to be like. My son likes the comic book cartoons, but no way I would let him watch some of the Comic Book Movies yet, especially the Dark Knight series.

 

[goteron]

This is also a perfect example of why carrying a full size gun makes sense. Wouldn't want to be making a 25y shot with a sub-compact.

 

[SirIsaacNewton]

All I know is the zippers I shoot always end in the neck and head region. Also I always sit in the front rows so I would have probably been first to go and because of that fact there would have been no long range engagements for me.

IMO a bad guy being shot at is better then a bad guy doing all of the shooting. Like Nate said earlier: engage him and screw with his OODA loop

Personally I love the quote at the bottom of the page. I hope this guy goes down as the biggest p****y in history.

 

[oleheat]

I certainly agree on the point that this guy is a coward. Seems like they always are. Funny how you never see guys like this choosing a major police dept station as their target, hmm? They go where they believe opposing guns are the least likely to be waiting for them. It's not that hard to figure out. It should also prove to a thinking person that wanting to disarm the law abiding public is the WRONG answer to this.

I do not go to movie "premiers" such as this- but judging from some of the coverage of them in the media (and I know I'm probably generalizing a bit), I'd say they are tailor-made for a bastard like this guy to carry out his dirty work. Frankly, part of me is surprised it hasn't happened before now, I'm sorry to say....

 

[brfd557]

I still would like to know the exact gear he had on. Just b/c it looks like Bullet Proof Flak gear doesn't mean it is. We know what he was wearing, but was it Real Ballistic Gear or not? All the media keeps saying is that EVERYTHING he had on was Bullet Proof to include Gas Mask…. I don't buy that.

To the what would you do;
There's just so many scenarios to play out. Most of our gut reactions are to move and take cover and move and take cover until we get the hell out of there. I mean the dude doesn’t look like some punk with a kid right?

However, there are of course many other scenarios that might happen that could FORCE us to engage. I do think those are WORTH talking about but it should be structured and it's be hard to do over a forum.

I mean of course we all THINK we’d bail and run like everyone else, but would you really? I suspect if that’s the option you think you’re capable of, then that might indeed be the only option in your head and in a high stress situation you might do just that, run.

This might sound cheesy to some but if death is imminent, are you going to die with bullets in your back running, are meet your maker head on at least trying to live and hopefully allowing others to live too. If not at least stalling the attacker enough for more people to get out. A little lady did just that in that Church Attack in 07’. She was scared to death but she took cover and then engaged when the shooter got close enough. Just so happens ‘1’ round she fired struck the suspect which caused him to STOP his attack, draw his pistol and shoot himself. Just 1 lady with 1 bullet. Of course this guy was wearing flak gear, but what if your first round hits between the top of the sternum and up? Neck protectors and Gas masks don’t stop bullets. You might just severe the jugular are make it through to the neck and break it.

I saw a lot of folks get hammered in the other thread for merely having optimism about the situation. Both possibilities have to be considered. Can I run and survive or will I just die running away? Or since everyone is running one way and I the opposite will the shooting lane be opened enough to engage? Should I just take cover since he’s firing high in the upper area and pray he walks by me? IDK? But running doesn’t fit in as my first priority.

I see my options as all on the same line and ready to be implemented given whatever situation it is. If I’m 5 feet from the exit, then I’m out and would might post up outside the door holding it open or something. If I’m 30 feet in front of this guy, I’m toast. If I’m in the upper deck, my legs are going to hurt real bad but I’m jumping. If I’m sitting in the middle do I low crawl? Sit tight? I mean were talking endless possibilities.

They say his drum mag jammed. Just how long did it take him to figure that out? Did he attempt to Tap/Rack/bang? Did he fondle around with it? Or did he just throw it down quickly and switch weapons?

To close your mind into thinking that ANYTHING BUT running is foolish, is…well…foolish.

I won’t fault anyone here for saying what they would have done. It’s good to think it out best you can. It’s simply the ONLY way to Train for some. Tactical Decision Games are a big part of small unit Military training so I see nothing wrong with throwing out scenarios and talking them out. It’s beneficial and hopefully no one bombs in with the Arm Chair Commando Flaming.

very well put!

 

[brfd557]

Whether he had armor on or not shouldn't change anyone's plan. You engage him and make him start deciding things like; is someone shooting at me? Am I being shot? Do I really wanna die today? Where is the person shooting me? When he starts making those calculations he is less able to murder.

Think about the engagement how long is the shot back row to fire exit? What's your failure to stop tactic? From 30 or 40 yards away can you make Pelvic Girdle hits under stress?

My thoughts exactly, and the way this guy just gave up I believe he WAS the big P coward we all thought he was! I believe if he found himself being pelted with lead he would have broke and ran.

 

[scubaman69]

I have been to Denver Colorado and a few surrounding towns.I am truly amazed that out of a couple of hundred people that no one had a firearm.You mean thugs don't go to movies any more.Population of town was around 332,000.Denver is full of thugs and I would think at a midnight showing,most crack dealers are just getting a start on their day.

The more I see and hear,the more I want to believe in the tin hat theory.He gave up so easy and knowing he was going to die in prison or
by lethal injection.Nothing about this case makes any sense so far.He was such a smart kid,yet his planning of the massacre really sucked.

 

[504BigNasty]

Well seeing I CC akimbo Draco's I would have had no problem defeating his amor.






On a serious note I would have tried to fire with out endangering others.

 

[oleheat]

Not sure if this has already been addressed.....

But for those interested, it appears that the entire 'HE WAS COVERED IN BODY ARMOR' hysteria was nothing more than embellishment/fear mongering- with a little help from those toting an agenda, I'm sure..... But what do we expect from the people currently trying to sell the idea that semi-automatic rifles belong 'on a battlefield'??


http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theater-shooter/



Lots of variables, sure.

But this would seem to at least make it a little more likely that an opposing armed individual could have made a difference- instead of keeping with the 'there's nothing anyone could have done to stop him' hopelessness offered up initially by some media buffoons.....

 

[Hitman]

Not sure if this has already been addressed.....

But for those interested, it appears that the entire 'HE WAS COVERED IN BODY ARMOR' hysteria was nothing more than embellishment/fear mongering- with a little help from those toting an agenda, I'm sure..... But what do we expect from the people currently trying to sell the idea that semi-automatic rifles belong 'on a battlefield'??


http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theater-shooter/



Lots of variables, sure.

But this would seem to at least make it a little more likely that an opposing armed individual could have made a difference- instead of keeping with the 'there's nothing anyone could have done to stop him' hopelessness offered up initially by some media buffoons.....

Remember Post #19? - Suprise! ... no not really.

 

[oleheat]

Remember Post #19? - Suprise! ... no not really.

There you go!


So I'm guessing it would be wise to not hold my breath while waiting on a retraction from the MSM, hmm?