LEO can not shoot at vehicles used as weapons in Anchorage.

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  • JBP55

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    Alaska cops' new policy: No shooting at suspects using vehicles as weapons
    The city's police officers have been instructed not to shoot at suspects who are using vehicles as weapons
    inShare0

    By Casey Grove
    Anchorage Daily News

    ANCHORAGE — It's a departure from the Anchorage Police Department's previous use-of-deadly-force policy, the city's police officers have been instructed not to shoot at suspects who are using vehicles as weapons.

    That is, if the vehicle is the only weapon the suspect is using.

    Police Chief Mark Mew said Tuesday that the city's officers have seen an increase of incidents in which a suspect driver puts police officers in fear for their lives or the lives of others, causing the officers to open fire. That scenario playing out more often means a greater risk to officers, bystanders and innocent passengers, Mew said.

    Once the new policy is fully implemented and officers are trained, they will be violating department policy by shooting at a driving suspect if the driver is otherwise unarmed, Mew said.
    Situations with fleeing drivers or suspects trying to ram police cars are dynamic and dangerous, Mew said.

    "You have a setup that's changing. Vehicles are moving. Officers are moving. Suspects are moving," Mew said. "You might start out with a safe approach and suddenly everything is unsafe, and when you have bullets flying around, it just is not controlled enough and we think there's a better way to do it."

    Officers are getting training on new tactics to use in situations that involve a suspect driving at them or others dangerously, Mew said. The police chief would not discuss the new tactics. The policy change took effect in mid-May, he said. Training is likely to be completed by fall, he said.

    Police administrators told each shift of officers about the change in a series of meetings, Mew said. The new policy affects the department's roughly 350 sworn officers, including lieutenants, sergeants, detectives and patrol officers, police spokeswoman Jennifer Castro said.

    "Any time you have a change of policy like this there's going to be questions, and some people will immediately see the need for it, some will want to question the necessity to do this," Mew said. "So we had good, healthy discussion. By and large, I think the troops are on board and ready for this."

    But do the officers feel like they will be able to protect themselves as well?
    "We gave them a different way to protect themselves. I think they'll be safer with this new policy and training," Mew said.

    The tactics are more forceful and more effective, in some ways, than firing shots, said Derek Hsieh, president of the Anchorage Police Department Employees Association. Hsieh said his union supports the policy change. It's reasonable, Hsieh said, given what he described as "an evolution of tactics by some suspects."

    "People are essentially ramming their way through police vehicles more," he said. "What we had trained officers to do isn't meeting all those challenges."

    Hsieh also said he could not discuss the specific new methods police officers will use in those scenarios. But he said he expects the officers, his union members, to embrace the change.

    "What's going to happen is we're going to shift to tactics, procedures, that are quite frankly more aggressive," Hsieh said. "We're going to trade down in one area and essentially trade up in another."

    Other parts of the department's extensive policies on the use of lethal force are under review as well, Chief Mew said.

    Some Anchorage residents had criticized the police in the wake of the fatal officer-involved shooting of 26-year-old Shane Tasi. Officer Boaz Gionson shot and killed Tasi when he came at Gionson waving a long stick in June 2012. The critics demanded the police department change what they called a "shoot-to-kill" policy.

    Mew said there are no specific changes yet to the parts of the department's policy related to those types of incidents. But that review and a move toward more "de-escalation" training — calming armed suspects before gunfire becomes necessary — are related, Mew said.

    "They are related because we're trying to avoid situations where we have bullets flying around," he said.

    The policy change announced Tuesday comes after three cases this year in which officers fired at a driver.

    In February, police shot and killed Carl Bowie III — a 25-year-old who was driving a stolen pickup and rammed police cars — as Bowie drove in reverse at officers on foot, narrowly missing one, a police video showed. A state Department of Law review showed officers Roger Billiet and Alan Rydberg to have been justified in the shooting.

    Officer Keo Fujimoto shot at 34-year-old Lusia Pedro in March after Pedro rammed police cars while fleeing a crime scene, police said. Pedro had allegedly brandished a handgun while driving through a group of people outside a downtown bar. The officer's gunfire did not hit Pedro, but it shattered a window and caused minor injuries to two passengers, police said.

    Two officers — Eric Nowak and Julnudda Jackson — opened fire on 26-year-old Ryan Robert Portlock on May 11 when Portlock allegedly ignored their commands and drove a stolen pickup into a patrol car. Neither Portlock nor his passengers were hit, police said.
     

    Hitman

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    Mark-Wahlberg-Shock-and-Confused-Look.gif
     

    in625shooter

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    There are several agencies (a lot are Federal) that dictate in their Use of Force policy that unless you are being fired at you are not allowed to fire upon a vehicle. The theory is if you kill the driver it you could cause it to go out of control and hit someone not involved (aka Joe Public) in the incident. I am not an administrator but As a LE trainer I say the Officers should be trained accordingly. There are times where it would be feasible (on a rural highway or at a time when kids are not on a playground) and times when you shouldn't.
     

    headspace

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    There are times where it would be feasible (on a rural highway or at a time when kids are not on a playground) and times when you shouldn't.
    agreed. Trying to run over and kill somebody, if a shot can stop the threat at the time then yes. Simply running shouldn't warrant shooting. And if in a residential area like the video a couple posts up, I'd say not a great idea. Wonder where all those rounds wound up?...don't know about anybody else here, but watching one of my family take a bullet at the dinner table in the name of stopping the bad guy from getting away just doesn't justify the means.
     

    oleheat

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    Did they have a really brutal winter, or something? The cold must have affected their brains- that's absolutely NUTS. :dunno:


    Furthermore- who in Hades is going to obey that stupid $hit when their own life is at stake? Screw that in so many ways......
    flipoff.gif
     

    in625shooter

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    Did they have a really brutal winter, or something? The cold must have affected their brains- that's absolutely NUTS. :dunno:


    Furthermore- who in Hades is going to obey that stupid $hit when their own life is at stake? Screw that in so many ways......
    flipoff.gif

    It's called departmental rules on Use Of Force period! You don't have to like them but don't follow them and you are on your own for any legal representation as well as be out of a job. Yes everyone has the right to protect themselves from serious bodily injury or death however as far as a vehicle or aircraft many many agencies (to include a lot of Federal agencies) have strict rules forbidding firing upon vehicles or aircraft unless being fired upon. Even if you shoot the occupant while it is coming at you does not stop the vehicle unless your agency issues you a 577 nitro double rifle or 50 BMG.
     

    oleheat

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    It's called departmental rules on Use Of Force period! You don't have to like them but don't follow them and you are on your own for any legal representation as well as be out of a job. Yes everyone has the right to protect themselves from serious bodily injury or death however as far as a vehicle or aircraft many many agencies (to include a lot of Federal agencies) have strict rules forbidding firing upon vehicles or aircraft unless being fired upon. Even if you shoot the occupant while it is coming at you does not stop the vehicle unless your agency issues you a 577 nitro double rifle or 50 BMG.


    Well, I'm certainly no expert, man- and don't claim to be. But I can promise you this: you're never more "on your own" than when they place you in a pine box. I'm just concerned that implementing these type of rules will only get good men & women killed, that's all.

    No, the vehicle won't be stopped by a service pistol. A dead driver won't turn around and come back for more, either.
     

    in625shooter

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    Well, I'm certainly no expert, man- and don't claim to be. But I can promise you this: you're never more "on your own" than when they place you in a pine box. I'm just concerned that implementing these type of rules will only get good men & women killed, that's all.

    No, the vehicle won't be stopped by a service pistol. A dead driver won't turn around and come back for more, either.

    I hear what your saying and no you are not going to let yourself be killed or take an %^$ whipping but let me add. I have worked Law Enforcement for 27 years. Military, 2 municipal PD's and Federal the last decade in a half. what a lot of folks do not understand is an LEO has to make a split second decision not only taking into account innocent bystanders or partners but departmental rules as well. If you violate one of the Use of Force rules and it turns out good it is often overlooked. If you blatantly violate one and somebody not intended to get hurt gets hurt you will stand on your own and not be considered under the umbrella of "scope of your employment" which means you can be held liable in the soon to come civil suit. If you follow the rules then the agency steps in and covers you. So you have to be able to articulate why you made the decisions you made. As long as you can do that you could or could not be ok.

    I don't like a lot of policies I've seen at about every agency I've worked for has done but I am free to seek employment elsewhere. I like many try to do the best we can and like an older guy told me when I was a Rookie, "If your not sure your covered by policy 100% Only do what you think your career and your bank account can handle"

    very good advice jobwise!
     
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    oleheat

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    Very tough line of work. I certainly can NOT relate! Thanks for all your years of service, Sir.
     

    LCPL 4

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    Reminds me of an old movie I like ...

    Gorman: Oh, great. Wonderful. Sh&^! [talking with the intercomunicator] Look... Uh... Apone. Look, we can't have any firing in there. I, uh... I want you to collect magazines from everybody.

    Hudson: Is he f%$king crazy?

    Frost: What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?
     

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