Loaded Magazines

[Emperor]

BUT! BUT! BUT!... The high speed low drag range officer at Honey Island told me he doesn't keep his mags loaded, because it kills the springs!

I think he's a member here. If he is, I apologize if I hurt your feelings, but you're wrong.

He shouldn't be mad! He should do what I did when people on here were spouting their opinionated nonsense about the pitfalls of using the slide stop as an alternative to racking the slide; call the manufacturers and ask them! They made the damn things!

Stunningly enough, even after I posted direct quotes from the assembly engineers at 4 or 5 of the top manufacturers stating there were no ill effects to using the slide stop, they still had dummies on here saying differently!

I thought to myself, "Damn, That is just how phony liberal's thought process' work!"

 

[DAVE_M]

He shouldn't be mad! He should do what I did when people on here were spouting their opinionated nonsense about the pitfalls of using the slide stop as an alternative to racking the slide; call the manufacturers and ask them! They made the damn things!

Stunningly enough, even after I posted direct quotes from the assembly engineers at 4 or 5 of the top manufacturers stating there were no ill effects to using the slide stop, they still had dummies on here saying differently!

I thought to myself, "Damn, That is just how phony liberal's thought process' work!"

Pretty much. I have my reasons for not using the slide stop, but it has nothing to do with "because that's not how it works."
Same for unloaded mags. I have a bunch that are unloaded, because I'm lazy!

 

[kibb]

I am sure this is not enough for the "know it all" crowd here, but stand alone magazine manufacturers and tier 1 gun manufacturers have consistently maintained that long term storage of loaded magazines is not an issue to the life and functionality of the magazine.

If the physics of springs failed like that, every car in America over 3 years old would have their chassis resting directly on the tires.

Personally, I've never had an issue with loaded mags.

However, nobody has an elephant sitting on their car for 3 years fully compressing their springs to test this theory. That would be a more "apples to apples" comparison.

 

[Emperor]

Personally, I've never had an issue with loaded mags.

However, nobody has an elephant sitting on their car for 3 years fully compressing their springs to test this theory. That would be a more "apples to apples" comparison.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but that is a silly statement! You see, the weight of the car IS the compression element on the springs. You would have to take the springs off of the frame (in the box) if you will, to have a comparison to an unloaded magazine.

Rethink that.

 

[kibb]

No offense taken. Loaded magazines are exactly like an elephant on car. If the elephant is heavy enough the springs will be fully compressed. Springs aren't fully compressed on a car as it is, if compressed much at all. A car, as it is, may be like a 30 Rd mag with 5 rounds in it. I understand that the car is putting constant downward pressure on the springs due to gravity, but this is nowhere near the same as staying in a fully compressed state for 3 years.

 

[Emperor]

No offense taken. Loaded magazines are exactly like an elephant on car. If the elephant is heavy enough the springs will be fully compressed. Springs aren't fully compressed on a car as it is, if compressed much at all. A car, as it is, may be like a 30 Rd mag with 5 rounds in it. I understand that the car is putting constant downward pressure on the springs due to gravity, but this is nowhere near the same as staying in a fully compressed state for 3 years.

So, your beef is that I used the wrong comparison?

 

[kibb]

No beef, just trying to make an apple to apple comparison.

 

[Emperor]

No beef, just trying to make an apple to apple comparison.

I'll bite! Since we know that the manufacturers themselves have stated repeatedly that there is no negative affect to keep the magazines stored loaded, what do you propose would have been a better apples to apples comparison?

 

[kibb]

Like you and I both said!!

Not:
You: loaded magazine and car as is. Fully compressed spring vs partially compressed, constant pressure spring.

This:
You: unloaded magazine and springs off car. Fully decompressed springs.

Me: fully loaded magazine and elephant on the car. Fully compressed springs.

 

[general mills]

Springs aren't fully compressed on a car as it is, if compressed much at all..

Have you ever rebuilt a strut? Granted, the springs aren't fully compressed, but they are a far cry from not compressed much at all. I can tell you after decades in the car, they are still compressed under tremendous load. Don't ever think they are not, or you may lose a body part.

 

[kibb]

I've worked on plenty vehicles. Actually, I just changed a lower control arm two weeks ago. I did notice the spring stretch as I raised the car. That told me there was down pressure on the spring. However, the spring was not fully compressed. I'm not denying the fact the springs don't have a load. Please refer to my earlier post for verification of that statement.

Next!

 

[general mills]

Watching how much the springs stretch when lifting the car is no comparison how much they stretch when unloaded. The springs are held tightly compressed by the strut. If you have ever taken that apart, you would not describe it as "if compressed much at all" If you took the top off of that strut (DO NOT DO THIS) you would see it stretch a heck of a lot more. If you want to get technical, a magazine spring is also not fully compressed, just under load, as there is still some room to push down on a fully loaded magazine, just not enough to fit another bullet.

 

[Hermit]

Springs don't care if they're relaxed or compressed.
They just like to stay one way or the other.

 

[kibb]

Ok. Fair enough. I'll take that. However, they are not nearly completely compressed.

 

[kibb]

Springs don't care if they're relaxed or compressed.
They just like to stay one way or the other.

Exactly!!

 

[general mills]

Also, think of the springs on your garage door. Do you have to call a service man to add tension to them every few years? They are under full load at all times unless the door is open, yet they will hold the door to a zero balance condition for decades until they fail and break. A frequently used door will get a little heavy over time, but one that stays shut mostly will stay balanced till the end.

 

[kibb]

I'm not refuting anything you're saying. I was only pointing out the fact a fully compressed mag spring and a fully compressed suspension spring are more closely related than a fully compressed mag spring and a partially compressed suspension coil spring on car in it natural resting position. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Request Dust Off]

I think the whole thing hinges on a "properly designed spring". Don't go all OT on hinges now. Car springs can take a set without total loss of free length. Generally not a big enough deal to matter. Springs that fail are arguably not correctly engineered, manufactured, implemented or otherwise damaged.

Where I really see spring failure is on DIY projects where the springs are selected via trial and error, so that agrees with the theory.

Kibb,
I understand what you are saying. A car at ride hide is like an empty mag. A full mag is like a car at full bump. One difference is a car can go into a full droop state. So at ride height the car is more like a partially loaded mag. A car at full droop or empty mag still has some preload on the spring.

 

[Request Dust Off]

Springs don't care if they're relaxed or compressed.
They just like to stay one way or the other.

Be careful someone may accuse you of thinking springs have feelings or OMG you left out under tension.

 

[kibb]

Ding, ding, ding!!!