New to USPSA

[5shotgroup]

I have a glock 23 and acouple single stack 1911 and was woundering if the 23 would be a ok gun to start with or would it not even come close to competing in the production class. If it would be a ok gun to start with what would be some recoil spring # trigger# anything helps.

 

[audioshooter]

It will be fine to start with, but you might want to look at shooting single stack instead. Major power factor is very helpful.

 

[davidd]

I have used a G22 and currently use a G35 for Production div. (I also own a G23.) I never got into the 9mm thing, and was already set up to reload .40 when I started USPSA, so I've kept with .40 guns. I don't think it places me at a disadvantage to anyone using 9mm. While the G23 will put you at a disadvantage due to the shorter sight radius, if that is what you have, by all means start with it. We’ve seen several people start out with G19’s and even a G26/27 every once in a while.

That being said, a couple of caveats. Do you reload? If not, full power .40 loads WILL place you at a serious disadvantage, as the muzzle flip is more pronounced (esp with the G23) than with most any factory 9mm. If you do reload, it's not an issue. I use a 13# spring in my G35 with loads that are lighter than most any factory 9mm.

As far as modifying your G23, I would not sink a lot of money (if any) into it for competition use. If you want to try your hand at competition a couple of times, use the gun as-is. See if you like the matches. If you do, and you want to be competitive, you will want something else to use long term. That is the gun you will want to modify. Keep the G23 mostly stock for self defense / carry. You do not want a competition trigger on your SD gun. Check out YouTube for the Glock 25 cent trigger job. That is as far as I would go on the G23.

Let us know if you can reload. With .40 in Production, that makes all the difference. Now if you want to try Single Stack with that 1911, you may have everything you need. Full power loads are recommended for Single Stack, so if you do not reload, factory ammo will not place you at a disadvantage.

 

[kcinnick]

A bunny fart .40 load is softer than any 9mm minor load. I shot a certain members gun and would not have know the gun fired if it wasn't for the hole appearing in the target... If you are reloading the cost difference between 9 and .40 is nothing.

 

[Sin-ster]

Since I'm guessing you're not set up to run 4+ mags on your belt, and odds are that you'll be shooting factory ammo, I strongly suggest you shoot the G23 in Limited.

It's a natural place for a new shooter to start out anyway, as you won't be fighting reloads over and over. That means less concern with stage breakdown, less time spent doing other things than shooting, and more ability to focus on what you should for your first time out-- being safe and having fun.

Unlike most folks who receive this recommendation, you'll also be shooting Major PF-- so less disadvantage than you might think. Perhaps most pointedly, you're not going to be dominating the field your first few times out-- so whatever disadvantages the 23 will hold will be moot anyway.

Bringing 45 rounds to the line will get you through the vast majority of stages you'll face-- all of them, if you're accurate enough. You can tuck a 4th mag in your pocket just in case and be GTG. Chances are that you've got a feasible holster to use already, and a double pouch for a Glock-pattern mag should be easy and cheap to come by. If you like, I've got two doubles and a single I could loan you-- that'd get you through a match in Production as well, if you feel that's your cup of tea.

 

[flamatrix99]

Is it better to start in Production or Limited/Limited 10? I was under the impression Production is where most start. I was at the Nov match and shot a G19 but my lovely bride got me a G34 for xmas with a Black Ice holster. I also have a Springfield Loaded 45 1911 with Chip McCormick 10rd mags and a Bladetech holster. I reload both 9 amd 45. I load bunnyfarts for her to shoot but I need a chronograph to see if they would make major PF.

 

[Sin-ster]

I recommend Limited for first time shooters for two key reasons:

1) You can almost certainly run whatever gun you already own, with gear you either have or can come by easily/cheaply.
2) You don't have to reload after every array. Most DQs occur during a reload; most newer shooters are already fumbling with the mag/gun in the process. You'll still get to reload at the match-- just not 2-4 times per stage.

Production is what most beginner shooters eventually settle into and choose as their first "long term" Division. Subsequently, it is often recommended that people shoot their first match here. In terms of equipment, it is essentially the least expensive to find your way to a relatively even playing field. The appeal of shooting 9mm is also a large factor. Only recently, the notion of Production as "THE beginner Division" has evaporated; the Division is the 2nd most popular, from new shooters to World Champions, and is rapidly gaining popularity.

Without stirring up crap by saying that it's the hardest Division (even though it is), I can say that Production offers the most challenges for the shooter without a doubt. Minor scoring makes accuracy a premium, yet the light recoil that comes with it means guys are shooting VERY fast. Obviously, in terms of technical skills, mag changes are at a premium-- and harder to execute than with 140mm+ tubes and a magwell, found in Open, Limited and L10. And with only 10 rounds in each mag, stage analysis and planning becomes huge-- as does perfect execution.

Subsequently, it's not at ALL the Division that I'd recommend for a first time shooter. Honestly, if they had the gun for it... Open would be the way to go. "Put the dot on the target and press the trigger. You'll have to reload once on Stage 2 and once on Stage 3. Go have fun and be safe."

 

[returningliberty]

I agree 100% with your assessment. I was Blown Away with how challenging production is. And even after you get your reload mechanics down and your stage planning is in your head, it's insanely difficult to execute it perfectly. It's the place I started, and I'll be making a comeback tour this month, but in Limited I've learned my lesson lol.

 

[flamatrix99]

I guess its the 1911 in limited 10 or the G34 in Limited with full mags. Can I have a magwell on the G34 in limited? The rulebook wasnt that clear.

 

[5shotgroup]

Thanks for all the help. I do reload only a single stage press but been shooting rifle alot so its all I needed and just getting into reloading for pistol it will work for now. davidd can you give me some advice on what kind of loads you use. Hopefully the next match a eaps I will be there watching and talking to see how things work so I can go home and set something up to practice and understand how matches work.

 

[davidd]

I'll send you a PM with some additional info. I'm usually at all of the EAPS matches, so feel free to come around and see how things work.

 

[davidd]

Also, Sin-ster is right about it being "easier" to shoot in Limited starting off - less to go wrong. If you wanted to go that route, I have extra G22 mags I'd be willing to loan you for a match. That would bump you up a couple of rounds. I don't have extra mag pouches - loaned them out and haven't gotten them back yet.

 

[davidd]

I guess its the 1911 in limited 10 or the G34 in Limited with full mags. Can I have a magwell on the G34 in limited? The rulebook wasnt that clear.

Yes, magwells are allowed in Limited.

 

[Sin-ster]

Thanks for all the help. I do reload only a single stage press but been shooting rifle alot so its all I needed and just getting into reloading for pistol it will work for now. davidd can you give me some advice on what kind of loads you use. Hopefully the next match a eaps I will be there watching and talking to see how things work so I can go home and set something up to practice and understand how matches work.

I'd honestly suggest you just come out and shoot one, instead of watching. Most folks always regret not bringing their stuff when they plan to just observe.

There is a new shooter's meeting at the beginning of every match, with the esteemed Lloyd Landry going over everything you'll need to know. It can be a lot of information in a short period of time, but if you squad up with someone with experience (David has volunteered himself already, LOL), they can walk you through the process before each stage.

 

[scooterj]

Bo is right. Bring your gear and 150 to 200 rounds of ammo and shoot the match. You will get more than enough guidance and advice. If you are anything like the rest of us, you'll be back

 

[Emperor]

I'd honestly suggest you just come out and shoot one, instead of watching. Most folks always regret not bringing their stuff when they plan to just observe.

There is a new shooter's meeting at the beginning of every match, with the esteemed Lloyd Landry going over everything you'll need to know. It can be a lot of information in a short period of time, but if you squad up with someone with experience (David has volunteered himself already, LOL), they can walk you through the process before each stage.

Bo is right. Bring your gear and 150 to 200 rounds of ammo and shoot the match. You will get more than enough guidance and advice. If you are anything like the rest of us, you'll be back

Dude, these are two of the BIG DOGS. Listen to them.

And bring 5 mags!

 

[davidd]

I'd honestly suggest you just come out and shoot one, instead of watching. Most folks always regret not bringing their stuff when they plan to just observe.

There is a new shooter's meeting at the beginning of every match, with the esteemed Lloyd Landry going over everything you'll need to know. It can be a lot of information in a short period of time, but if you squad up with someone with experience (David has volunteered himself already, LOL), they can walk you through the process before each stage.

I was the new guy a year and a half ago. I does help to have someone walk with you through the first match. Let me know if you want to come and shoot, and I make sure we get squaded together.

 

[5shotgroup]

THANKS everybody I appreciate all the help. Sin-ster thanks for the offer to loan mag pouch I think somewhere in this mess I call a house I have a couple double mag pouches from when my old man was a LEO davidd thanks for the mag offer I have two 22 mags and some more I need to go reposs for a friend. If everything goes right I will see yall at the next match and will bring my stuff. Thanks agian yall have been alot of help

 

[enutees]

Good advice above. It is hard to do but put your ego aside for the first few matches. Don't worry about winning or scores. Worry about learning the rules, staying safe, and having fun. No matter how good people think they will be, you will suck at your first match unless you have practiced USPSA type shooting. Most people have never shot on a timer with people watching much less added movement and reloads.

Once you shoot a match and get addicted then you can learn what you need to know to get better and what equipment choices are right for you. You will see a variety of people and skill levels. No one is judging you. The people that are winning the match are typically only worried about their own performance. Plenty of us are there to help you if you need assistance, advice, or tips.

 

[Sin-ster]

Good advice above. It is hard to do but put your ego aside for the first few matches. Don't worry about winning or scores. Worry about learning the rules, staying safe, and having fun. No matter how good people think they will be, you will suck at your first match unless you have practiced USPSA type shooting. Most people have never shot on a timer with people watching much less added movement and reloads.

Amen to that. If not for a 9 year old shooting in my Division, I'd have finished DFL my first two matches...

One thing I've learned about this sport is that you're much better off shooting without expectation anyway-- first time shooter, or obsessed Master Class competitor. Not only will you have a lot more fun, you'll almost certainly perform better as well.

It sounds like you've got everything you need, 5shot. Once you get it all together, post up a little list here (or PM someone from this thread) just to double check, and make your way out to a match!