Obama has released more prisoners than the last 10 presidents combined

[bigtattoo79]

The world is a bad place, you can't save everybody from everything.

Guess so.

 

[JoeLiberty]

That's like saying if a child is sexually assaulted by a teacher you feel it's the parents fault.

What the **** are you talking about? Are you equating doing drugs with getting raped? If a child is sexually assaulted it's the fault of the teacher, obviously. And it doesn't mean we should make all sex illegal. Pull your head out.

Very true, kids can just get any crack head of age to go buy them weed, booze, LSD, crystal meth etc from the local drug shop. No more need for "dealers". Parents protecting their children from drugs? Sure the responsible ones will, but let's be honest, the responsible parent club is getting smaller every generation.

So we need big gov't to step in and parent for us?? Thanks but no thanks. I can decide how much crack to give my child, thanks. If you want less gun laws, it's a logical extension (IMHO) that you should want less drug laws. Both can be dangerous in the wrong hands and both can do great good when used responsibly.(http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/) Full-blown bans on either are stupid.

 

[bigtattoo79]

.

 

[Magdump]

Uh, lemme see, Obama ...yada yada, pardoning a couple hundred felons...more than the last 10 presidents combined..blah blah, then doubles that number...

Is this part of Obamacare?

I heard there were no white felons released. Would THAT be considered rayciss?

 

[Saintsfan6]

What the **** are you talking about? Are you equating doing drugs with getting raped? If a child is sexually assaulted it's the fault of the teacher, obviously. And it doesn't mean we should make all sex illegal. Pull your head out.



So we need big gov't to step in and parent for us?? Thanks but no thanks. I can decide how much crack to give my child, thanks. If you want less gun laws, it's a logical extension (IMHO) that you should want less drug laws. Both can be dangerous in the wrong hands and both can do great good when used responsibly.(http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/) Full-blown bans on either are stupid.

What can do great good when used responsibly? The laws or the gun/drugs? Sorry but in my mind, letting Walgreens sell heroin is not the same as stopping an "assault weapon ban". A drug like marijuana I could be ok with legalizing, but not PCP, heroin or the plethora of other drugs that could lead to severe social consequences. Just my opinion.

 

[bigtattoo79]

What the **** are you talking about? Are you equating doing drugs with getting raped? If a child is sexually assaulted it's the fault of the teacher, obviously. And it doesn't mean we should make all sex illegal. Pull your head out.



So we need big gov't to step in and parent for us?? Thanks but no thanks. I can decide how much crack to give my child, thanks. If you want less gun laws, it's a logical extension (IMHO) that you should want less drug laws. Both can be dangerous in the wrong hands and both can do great good when used responsibly.(http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/) Full-blown bans on either are stupid.

Oh hell I can't help myself and I know you have the balls to speak the truth. What drugs do you support being legalized and do you currently use them?

ETA: Do you support rand paul lol?

 

[JoeLiberty]

Marijuana is a good start. Check that link out. It is bringing real relief to lots of people. Cocaine, people could learn to handle responsibly. Heroin too, maybe. Pcp and meth? Perhaps not. But coke and heroin are derived from natural products and making plants illegal is ridiculous. Sugar is addictive and bad for people. Some libs believe we should tax and restrict soft drinks. Because people have no self control so we must have govt control. I disagree. Philosophically, sugar, coke, weed, caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco are no different. If you can use these products and not rob or assault people then have at it. Predicting that drugs are going to make people do crimes and punishing them before any real crime is committed? Pre-crime BS. Like taking away your assault weapon before you do a spree shooting.

 

[Saintsfan6]

Marijuana is a good start. Check that link out. It is bringing real relief to lots of people. Cocaine, people could learn to handle responsibly. Heroin too, maybe. Pcp and meth? Perhaps not. But coke and heroin are derived from natural products and making plants illegal is ridiculous. Sugar is addictive and bad for people. Some libs believe we should tax and restrict soft drinks. Because people have no self control so we must have govt control. I disagree. Philosophically, sugar, coke, weed, caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco are no different. If you can use these products and not rob or assault people then have at it. Predicting that drugs are going to make people do crimes and punishing them before any real crime is committed? Pre-crime BS. Like taking away your assault weapon before you do a spree shooting.

I see your point. But where you draw the line (meth and PCP) differs from where I draw the line (cocaine, heroin etc). The whole plant arguement is a different though, it's what we have done with the derivatives of the plant that makes it dangerous, not the plant itself. Poppy plant leaves have been used by people for a long time for pain management and euphoria, but the drugs we are talking about are a far cry from their plant form.

I believe there are serious social implications when you allow "hard drugs" to become legal. More implications than can be predicted. Excluding marijuana (which could very well be decriminalized in the next few decades), I doubt we will see a legalization of any of the above mentioned drugs in our or our children's lifetime.

 

[JoeLiberty]

Oh hell I can't help myself and I know you have the balls to speak the truth. What drugs do you support being legalized and do you currently use them?

ETA: Do you support rand paul lol?

Currently? No. I have a pretty good job and they do random drug screens. If I could? Weed maybe. It may not suprise you that I am a libertarian. Do you support Donald Trump? Talk about lol

 

[bigtattoo79]

Marijuana is a good start. Check that link out. It is bringing real relief to lots of people. Cocaine, people could learn to handle responsibly. Heroin too, maybe. Pcp and meth? Perhaps not. But coke and heroin are derived from natural products and making plants illegal is ridiculous. Sugar is addictive and bad for people. Some libs believe we should tax and restrict soft drinks. Because people have no self control so we must have govt control. I disagree. Philosophically, sugar, coke, weed, caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco are no different. If you can use these products and not rob or assault people then have at it. Predicting that drugs are going to make people do crimes and punishing them before any real crime is committed? Pre-crime BS. Like taking away your assault weapon before you do a spree shooting.

I understand the point you make. So for me to get on the same page and understand why it should change I ask: do you do cocaine and or heroin and handle it responsibly? If not what qualifications and or experience do you have that makes you think those two drugs could be handled responsibly?


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing I'm looking to learn.

 

[JoeLiberty]

I see your point. But where you draw the line (meth and PCP) differs from where I draw the line (cocaine, heroin etc). The whole plant arguement is a different though, it's what we have done with the derivatives of the plant that makes it dangerous, not the plant itself. Poppy plant leaves have been used by people for a long time for pain management and euphoria, but the drugs we are talking about are a far cry from their plant form.

I believe there are serious social implications when you allow "hard drugs" to become legal. More implications than can be predicted. Excluding marijuana (which could very well be decriminalized in the next few decades), I doubt we will see a legalization of any of the above mentioned drugs in our or our children's lifetime.

Coca leaves too. So the plants should be legal, right? With coke and heroin, nature makes the chemicals, people simply extract them. Are you arguing that some chemicals should only be 'allowed' in certain concentrations? Maybe beer is ok but 'hard' liquor should be illegal? We don't need anyone to quibble about dosage. The main reason its unsafe is there is no consistency or safety standards. We need people who can test and regulate such things. if some liquor was 20 proof and some 80 and you had no way to tell, it'd be easy to get hurt.

 

[JoeLiberty]

I understand the point you make. So for me to get on the same page and understand why it should change I ask: do you do cocaine and or heroin and handle it responsibly? If not what qualifications and or experience do you have that makes you think those two drugs could be handled responsibly?


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing I'm looking to learn.

Maybe this isn't the right thread for this discussion. Suffice it to say I'm not fretting about people not sitting in jail for non-violent drug offenses. (Woo is that a triple negative?) I'd rather make room for violent offenders so we can keep them locked up longer. Anybody else? No? Just me?? To re-frame a question from earlier, who would you rather deal with? A stoned teenager or an armed robber?

 

[Saintsfan6]

Coca leaves too. So the plants should be legal, right? With coke and heroin, nature makes the chemicals, people simply extract them. Are you arguing that some chemicals should only be 'allowed' in certain concentrations? Maybe beer is ok but 'hard' liquor should be illegal? We don't need anyone to quibble about dosage. The main reason its unsafe is there is no consistency or safety standards. We need people who can test and regulate such things. if some liquor was 20 proof and some 80 and you had no way to tell, it'd be easy to get hurt.

Absolutely some chemicals should only be allowed in some concentrations. There is a medicinal use for these plants extracts (we now make them synthetically). The reason we don't legalize the plants is people would be concentrating them and making crack and heroin. And no, not everyone should have access to these chemicals, that's what a DEA license and medical degrees are for. People who have been trained to use them in the proper situation, the proper way. Are you for everyone being able to self prescribe any medications "because freedom"?

 

[UnseenUSPCompact]

I never understood crying about high taxes and misuse of government money and then turning around and championing that weed smoker's rot in prison on the government dime. ::shrug::

 

[sliguns]

Would you rather deal with a drunk person or a person high on PCP?

I’d rather not deal with either, I find each of them to be very dangerous and destructive, so lets be consistent and ban all of it!!!

Do you believe drug deaths per year would increase if drugs were legalized?

Decrease

Do you believe drug usage would increase if legalized?

Idk, I think an argument can be made both ways


Here’s a decent article that goes through the “freedom argument” and the “consequential-ist argument”, I personally find each argument compelling, but I find myself (in all things) going first to the Moral Argument (which is a version of the freedom argument). This article also goes into some of the “what would happen if you legalize XYZ”.

https://attorneyforfreedom.com/legalize-methamphetamine/

There’s a ton more writing I could do, and hundreds of article I could post for you to read, but I’ll let you venture down that road on your own.

What are your thoughts on legalizing prostitution?

 

[sliguns]

I never understood crying about high taxes and misuse of government money and then turning around and championing that weed smoker's rot in prison on the government dime. ::shrug::

Yeah really...you can't have the highest prison population on the planet and have low taxes and freedom lolol

 

[Nathan Hale]

x

 

[UnseenUSPCompact]

Remember, most people in prison got there because they plead guilty. There are lots of "non-violent drug offenders" who have that designation because they plead their case down!

Good, then if drugs were legal they wouldn't have anything to plead down to and they would serve the time according to the crime.

 

[JoeLiberty]

Absolutely some chemicals should only be allowed in some concentrations. There is a medicinal use for these plants extracts (we now make them synthetically). The reason we don't legalize the plants is people would be concentrating them and making crack and heroin. And no, not everyone should have access to these chemicals, that's what a DEA license and medical degrees are for. People who have been trained to use them in the proper situation, the proper way. Are you for everyone being able to self prescribe any medications "because freedom"?

No. But they should be allowed to grow whatever plants they want in their backyard because freedom. And they should be allowed to consume those plants (and derivatives) because freedom. The argument isn't totally about medicine. It's about what I'm allowed to do as free man in my own home. Provided nobody else gets hurt, what's the problem with that? Don't knock 'freedom'. Don't you believe that people should be able to own any guns they want and only get punished when those guns are misused (AND NOT BEFORE) 'because freedom'? It's the same argument. See the parallel, make the connection. It is essentially an 'assault chemicals ban'. Only the chemicals can only hurt the people who choose to take them. Special care needs to be taken regarding access by children obviously.

 

[Saintsfan6]

I’d rather not deal with either, I find each of them to be very dangerous and destructive, so lets be consistent and ban all of it!!!



Decrease



Idk, I think an argument can be made both ways


Here’s a decent article that goes through the *freedom argument* and the *consequential-ist argument*, I personally find each argument compelling, but I find myself (in all things) going first to the Moral Argument (which is a version of the freedom argument). This article also goes into some of the *what would happen if you legalize XYZ*.

https://attorneyforfreedom.com/legalize-methamphetamine/

There’s a ton more writing I could do, and hundreds of article I could post for you to read, but I’ll let you venture down that road on your own.

What are your thoughts on legalizing prostitution?

You believe someone drinking alcohol to be equally destructive as a PCP user in terms of behavior? Seriously?

If you truly believe drug related deaths would decrease once legalized, then you have little understanding of pharmacodynamics and pathophysiologic effect of these substances.

Drug usage will almost certainly increase once legalized in my opinion, do you really want to find out? Think of the impact of tens of thousands of new, worthless drug addicts will have on our society.

The article you linked seems to focus on what happens to only the user, ignoring the societal implications. Ignoring those implications and simplifying it to "if you want to ruin your life, then do it!" And "all the drug dealers will be out of business and the war on drugs will be over, yay!" Is fool hearted in my opinion.