OC with IWB

[Swampy]

Pretty much sums it up.....

.........................When we see a man with musket to shoulder, or carbine slung on back, or pistol belted to his side, or such like, he is bearing arms in the constitutional sense.
A pistol half stuck in a pocket or about the clothes so that it is not fully exposed, even though a part of it may be visible, is carrying a concealed weapon within the meaning and intent of the statute ...................................................

 

[bayoutrigger]

Under 15:1305, they do a great job of makinf it unclear...

Concealed Handgun―any handgun as defined in R.S. 40:1379.3(J)(1), which is carried on a person in such a manner as to hide or obscure the handgun from plain view.

This is what you would be charged with if you were attempting OC and accussed of CC:

LRS 14:95
§95. Illegal carrying of weapons
A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
(1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person; or

They would have to prove intent to conceal. Casual coverage by a shirt when otherwise in plain view would not, inthe opinion of most DA's, consitute intent. unless of course, they are communists.

I quoted LRS 15:1305 as set forth above by NOLACOP. I didn't double check NOLACOP's quote of LRS 15:1305 to make sure it's accurate.

 

[bayoutrigger]

Now having gone to Westlaw and looked up LSA-R.S. 15:1305 I see that it has nothing to do with handguns. It deals with Confiscation of wire or oral communication intercepting devices

That's what I get for listening to a new orleans cop!

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Now having gone to Westlaw and looked up LSA-R.S. 15:1305 I see that it has nothing to do with handguns. It deals with Confiscation of wire or oral communication intercepting devices

That's what I get for listening to a new orleans cop!

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Title 55, Chapter 13, 1301-1307 contains the regulations that the Department of Public Safety and Corrections has adopted to comply with Act 4 of the first extraordinary session of the 1996 legislature.

Many law enforcement officers want us to believe that department regulations are the same as laws, but they are not.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Why don't you just carry in a cross draw holster and be done with it?

Nothing says John Wayne and tacti-cool like a cross draw!

.

 

[bayoutrigger]

WTF are you talking about?

I'm beginning to wonder what I'm talking about! This thread is becoming a moving target. Just remember I'm on your side.

When you wrote "15:1305" what does this refer to and when you wrote "Concealed Handgun―any handgun as defined in R.S. 40:1379.3(J)(1), which is carried on a person in such a manner as to hide or obscure the handgun from plain view" were you quoting any particular law or reported court opinion?

 

[posse comatosis]

Nothing says John Wayne and tacti-cool like a cross draw!

So you think John Wayne was the man on cross draw, do ya?
http://www.epsaddlery.com/pc-47-18-doc-holiday-holster.aspx

 

[Narco]

P7's are the only weapon systems that should be open carried in IWB.. It's all about the style and mystic.

 

[Manimal]

I OC'd with IWB plenty of times. I those last 3 pictures only the bottom picture is OC, the other 2 are concealed in La, of that I am 99% sure because it cannot be clearly seen as a handgun.

 

[posse comatosis]

Using an IWB holster rather plainly evinces an intent to conceal

Like driving a pimped Jeep down the freeway to work rather plainly evinces and intent to off-road instead? You are still adhering to the mechanistic standard used pre-Fluker. Fluker eliminated what as the sole legal criteria in the instant case and implemented why.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Like driving a pimped Jeep down the freeway to work rather plainly evinces and intent to off-road instead? You are still adhering to the mechanistic standard used pre-Fluker. Fluker eliminated what as the sole legal criteria in the instant case and implemented why.

Tell it to the judge.

 

[Hitman]

Tell it to the judge.

If an event happen that would constitute telling it to the judge, I don't think there would be much debate.

Lawyer: Officer John, how did you know the defendant was armed ?

Officer: I saw his pistol ?

How'd you see it if it was concealed ?

Uhh......

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I'm beginning to wonder what I'm talking about! This thread is becoming a moving target. Just remember I'm on your side.

When you wrote "15:1305" what does this refer to and when you wrote "Concealed Handgun―any handgun as defined in R.S. 40:1379.3(J)(1), which is carried on a person in such a manner as to hide or obscure the handgun from plain view" were you quoting any particular law or reported court opinion?

Sorry, I have fat fingers. I should have printed 55 instead of 15. this is from the LSP CHP division Rules and Applicable laws section for CHP. Simply provided as reference material. Mr. LOUISIANACARRY is correct in that these are LSP departmental regulations and not status law, but they would play into court in determining the definition of concealed or not.:

TITLE 55
PUBLIC SAFETY
PART I. STATE POLICE
Chapter 13. Issuance of Concealed Handgun Permits
§1301. Statement of Department Policy
A. The rules contained herein are promulgated by the Concealed Handgun Permit Section of the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, Office of State Police in order to set forth the policies and procedures applicable to the issuance of concealed handgun permits to Louisiana citizens who qualify for such permits pursuant to R.S. 40:1379.1(I), 40:1379.3, 40:1381, and 40:1382, and the issuance of special officer commissions; to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing permits to carry concealed handguns; and to maintain the health, welfare, and safety of the public. These considerations shall control the application and interpretation of these rules. Any subsequent restatement, repeal, or amendment of these rules shall be in accordance with the aforementioned considerations.
C. Handgun Defined. For the purpose of issuing concealed handgun permits, a "handgun" is defined as any pistol or revolver originally designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and which is designed to fire or is capable of firing fixed cartridge ammunition.
D. Duties and Responsibilities. Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon and are regarded as private citizens in all matters of law with no special powers or authority accruing by virtue of the concealed handgun permit.
AUTHORITY NOTE: Promulgated in accordance with R.S. 40:1379, 40:1381, and 40:1382.
HISTORICAL NOTE: Promulgated by the Department of Public Safety, Office of State Police, LR 1:495 (November 1975), amended by the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, Office of State Police, LR 22:845 (September 1996).
§1305. Definitions
A. For the purposes of these rules, the following words and phrases shall mean:
Addiction―the habitual use of alcoholic beverages or any controlled dangerous substance as defined in R.S. 40:961 and 40:964.
Applicant―a person who has completed and submitted an application to the department seeking a concealed handgun permit.
Application―the forms and schedules prescribed by the department upon which an applicant seeks a permit or the renewal thereof. Application also includes information, disclosure statements, releases, certificates or any other form required by the department in the application process.
Citizen―any person legally residing in Louisiana and who has been a resident for six months or longer immediately preceding the filing of an application for a concealed handgun permit.
10
Concealed Handgun―any handgun as defined in R.S. 40:1379.3(J)(1), which is carried on a person in such a manner as to hide or obscure the handgun from plain view.Department―Department of Public Safety and Corrections, Office of State Police.
Deputy Secretary―the deputy secretary of the Department of Public Safety and Corrections who serves as the superintendent of the Office of State Police.
Fugitive from Justice―a person who flees, evades, or escapes from any jurisdiction to avoid arrest, prosecution, or imprisonment for any criminal offense, which shall include outstanding traffic attachments or warrants, or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding.
Illegal Alien―any person without legal authority to enter or remain in the United States and who is not legally residing within the United States or any territory or possession of the United States.
Machine Gun―any firearm which shoots or is designed to shoot more than one round without reloading and by a single function of the trigger.
N.R.A.―National Rifle Association.
Permit―the authorization issued by the deputy secretary of the Department of Public Safety and Corrections pursuant to R.S. 40:1379.3 and these rules, which shall be valid for either two or four years from the date of issuance unless revoked, suspended, or otherwise invalidated, and shall contain a permit number, date of expiration, and the name, address, date of birth, physical description, and photograph of the permittee.
Permittee―an individual who meets the qualifications as described in R.S. 40:1379.3 and these rules and to whom a concealed handgun permit has been issued.
Pistol―a handgun that has a short barrel and can be held, aimed, and fired with one hand and is capable of only firing a single round each time the trigger is pulled, which includes semi-automatic handguns.
Resident―a person who maintains a dwelling in this state and is physically present in this state at least 51 percent of each calendar year. However, a person who maintains a dwelling in this state but is not physically present in this state at least 51 percent of each calendar year is still considered to be a resident for purposes of this Section if he is on U.S. military duty in another state or is attending school in another state.
Revolver―a pistol that has a rotating cylinder containing a number of firing chambers. The action of the trigger or hammer will line up a chamber with the barrel and firing pin.
AUTHORITY NOTE: Promulgated in accordance with R.S. 40:1379, 40:1381, and 40:1382.
HISTORICAL NOTE: Promulgated by the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, Office of State Police, LR 22:846 (September 1996), amended LR 28:1483 (June 2002). 11

 

[bayoutrigger]

Like driving a pimped Jeep down the freeway to work rather plainly evinces and intent to off-road instead? You are still adhering to the mechanistic standard used pre-Fluker. Fluker eliminated what as the sole legal criteria in the instant case and implemented why.

OK. My last post on this one before moving to more important things found on this web site Chicago Style Pizza in Lafayette?

It looks like Fluker changed the ballgame on concealed carry to one of intent. But what the hell, unless you just feel like championing 2nd amendment rights just get a concealed carry permit and be done with it.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

If an event happen that would constitute telling it to the judge, I don't think there would be much debate.

I wish that it were as simple as that, I really do. The fact remains that judges convict people for partially concealing firearms or concealing firearms some of the time. If the officer explains that he is trained to spot concealed weapons or that he saw the firearm when the wind blew the defendants shirt up, the defendant may well end up convicted.

We have many liberal judges that think people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns at all. They are looking for a basis to convict people. If you subject yourself to arrest, your future may well depend on to which judge your case gets assigned.

I personally think that the prohibition of concealed weapons is so bogus that I volunteer thousands of hours every year helping people get trained so that they are eligible to get CHL's.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Sorry, I have fat fingers. I should have printed 55 instead of 15. this is from the LSP CHP division Rules and Applicable laws section for CHP. Simply provided as reference material. Mr. LOUISIANACARRY is correct in that these are LSP departmental regulations and not status law, but they would play into court in determining the definition of concealed or not.

Thanks for the clarification. In this case, I think that the regulations do a good job of summarizing the applcation of the statutes definitions under pertinent case law.

I would like to point out that I am not affilliated with Louisiana Carry. He runs a for profit website that compiles information about carry in Louisiana.

I am a volunteer for a non-profit organization that promotes safe and responsible firearms use through training. We provide free Hunter Education classes, very inexpensive training for youth organizations such as the Boy Scouts, and low cost CHL training and Instructor Certification.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

I wish that it were as simple as that, I really do. The fact remains that judges convict people for partially concealing firearms or concealing firearms some of the time. If the officer explains that he is trained to spot concealed weapons or that he saw the firearm when the wind blew the defendants shirt up, the defendant may well end up convicted.

We have many liberal judges that think people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns at all. They are looking for a basis to convict people. If you subject yourself to arrest, your future may well depend on to which judge your case gets assigned.

I personally think that the prohibition of concealed weapons is so bogus that I volunteer thousands of hours every year helping people get trained so that they are eligible to get CHL's.

For the record, BTW, I am in total agreement with this post.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

Thanks for the clarification. In this case, I think that the regulations do a good job of summarizing the applcation of the statutes definitions under pertinent case law.

I would like to point out that I am not affilliated with Louisiana Carry. He runs a for profit website that compiles information about carry in Louisiana.

I am a volunteer for a non-profit organization that promotes safe and responsible firearms use through training. We provide free Hunter Education classes, very inexpensive training for youth organizations such as the Boy Scouts, and low cost CHL training and Instructor Certification.

LOL, if I was running LA Carry.org for profit (which of course I am not) I would be a damn stupid businessman. That site and the things I do for it lose me at least a grand a year.

 

[Hitman]

unless you just feel like championing 2nd amendment rights just get a concealed carry permit and be done with it.

It's much more deeper than that. I also don't view OC as championing

The fact remains that judges convict people for partially concealing firearms or concealing firearms some of the time. If the officer explains that he is trained to spot concealed weapons or that he saw the firearm when the wind blew the defendants shirt up, the defendant may well end up convicted.

C'mon Shooter, there you go again.

The last cite you stated was from the late 1800's. What's the last law suit you KNOW of where what you said above happen and the citizen was found guilty ?

I hear about it a whole lot, from lot's of forums. Yet that's all that ever happens. Hear, Hear, Hear. Never SEE

The Marine Corps taught me to,
believe NONE of what I hear, HALF of what I see, and only believe it 15 minutes after it happen.

I'm not trying to call you out disrespectfully,
I'm just not one for surping down the koolaid.