old rifles- have them restored or leave them "old"?

[madwabbit]

I'll keep this short: I don't collect guns. They are tools and toys for me. That being said, I've inherited a few and some have large sentimental value. A friend just had his old shotgun taken to a place that restores them- they pretty much make them brand new again, and make them functional if you so choose. I'll say the before/after was very impressive. My question comes because I know from collecting other things, like guitars, that if you clean and shine up an old one, you can actually ruin its value. Is that the case with guns as well?

Two of said rifles are great great grandfathers that are family heirlooms, he actually made them in the factory. Monetary value = zero. Sentimental value = priceless. I'd like to be able to put these over the mantle and one day pass them down to my sons. Does this type of restoration benefit here? it'd be in better condition to hand down, but the age kind of gives it character too.

The other two are over my mantle now, late 1800's lever action rifles- winchester. Inherited the lot, and one of the two came with explicit instructions that he had never fired and not to do so. I presume its just unsafe due to its age, which makes perfect sense.



So collectors- do you guys restore these things, or whats the appropriate care? I just don't want to make some catastrophic mistake out of ignorance. Thanks for the info

 

[Gator 45/70]

I would never have one restored, I keep mine clean and oiled. This way it maintains more value and original patina.

 

[madwabbit]

so just clean it as I would any other gun, and don't shoot it? lol

 

[kingfhb]

I do collect very specific pistols. I understand that cleaning them up or restoring them devalues them to a degree. On the other hand, I also have some pieces in my collection that have been fully restored... mostly because even though they are "collection pieces", that doesn't mean I still don't like to fire them once in a while!

As Madwabbit stated, they are tools... I've never hung a 100 year old crescent wrench on a wall or put it in a safe... or treated it for corrosion for that matter.

I also don't believe in just letting an old firearm rot and simply treating the existing damage with a preventative compound or masking it. There are exceptions to this though... a simple weapon with bluing damage, I won't strip it and restore the blue. Though I have been known to take a stainless firearm and polish it up to remove any surface damage. I love repairing and restoring them to working condition.

So... even though they sit in a safe for most of their lives... they still need to be able to perform... I don't tolerate slacking... even from my firearms.

 

[madwabbit]

I do collect very specific pistols. I understand that cleaning them up or restoring them devalues them to a degree. On the other hand, I also have some pieces in my collection that have been fully restored... mostly because even though they are "collection pieces", that doesn't mean I still don't like to fire them once in a while!

As Madwabbit stated, they are tools... I've never hung a 100 year old crescent wrench on a wall or put it in a safe... or treated it for corrosion for that matter.

I also don't believe in just letting an old firearm rot and simply treating the existing damage with a preventative compound or masking it. There are exceptions to this though... a simple weapon with bluing damage, I won't strip it and restore the blue. Though I have been known to take a stainless firearm and polish it up to remove any surface damage. I love repairing and restoring them to working condition.

So... even though they sit in a safe for most of their lives... they still need to be able to perform... I don't tolerate slacking... even from my firearms.

my biggest dilemma is over the family heirlooms. their monetary value is probably ~100 dollars each, but if they were ruined in the restoration process they could never be replaced. Too much risk vs the intended reward imo.

I haven't got a value on the other two yet, but regardless I wouldn't be shooting them anyway- they are mantle pieces/war stories. I'm led to believe by family that they are somewhat valuable though.



My concern is mainly weighing deterioration vs devaluing by attempting to protect them, I just don't know anything about it.

 

[kingfhb]

I would always go with devaluation vs deterioration. Each play their own role in ultimately devaluing the item anyway... but the end result is the key factor. Would you rather be stuck with a pile of degraded, deteriorated wood and metal with no value? Or an item that is somewhat deteriorated, however maintained with some value retained?

Also, with family heirlooms, they are valuable... even if not monetarily, they are valuable to you! Sentimental value is, in some cases, worth a lot more than monetary value. I would say restore them and keep your war stories, display items and sentiment.

 

[madwabbit]

I would always go with devaluation vs deterioration. Each play their own role in ultimately devaluing the item anyway... but the end result is the key factor. Would you rather be stuck with a pile of degraded, deteriorated wood and metal with no value? Or an item that is somewhat deteriorated, however maintained with some value retained?

Also, with family heirlooms, they are valuable... even if not monetarily, they are valuable to you! Sentimental value is, in some cases, worth a lot more than monetary value. I would say restore them and keep your war stories, display items and sentiment.

thanks for the comments king. Wife said she liked the idea of "fixing up" paw paws old guns to pass them down on day. Told her i'd look into it

 

[bigjakewelch]

If you are looking at these firearms in solely an Heirloom/ Sentimental basis, then I'd restore them. If you said it would be for investment purposes then I'd have to ask a wide array of other questions. In firearms I look at them in a ROI (return on investment) fashion if you were to tell me that you had a rare firearm that was in deplorable shape and you wanted to restore it to be able to move it faster I'd first find the value of the firearm in the condition that it was in. Secondly I'd find the value of it restored by a professional, take out the cost of the restoration, and voila you have your options. For sentimental objects it's different. Say you have an Old Steven's side by side that was your grandfather's and you killed your first deer with it, and you told me that it was something you wanted to pass down to your kids. There's no way I can put a value on that firearm other than a tangible value. The feelings that are associated with that $50 gun are priceless. I'd have to say I'd get the restoration before I'd let them rot away. Get some prices from several professionals for the restoration. You'd be surprised on the actual cost, it's not too expensive. I do these restorations all of the time and I can tell you that you'd be happier knowing that they will last a couple more generations after they're finished.

To date I have never had someone come back and regret having a restoration done on a sentimental piece. Weather it was done by me or another professional.

 

[dougstump]

There is a world of difference between preservation and restoration. I’ve seen quite a few valuable firearms (and furniture) that were ruined by *restoration*. I would preserve them as they are and don’t let them deteriorate. A careful cleaning & oiling should not hurt them a bit. Yes, they are *tools*, but they are very special tools. I have a couple of hand tools that were my grandfathers; I do use them once in a while but only with great care and respect.

Depending on what they are & if they are safe to shoot, with the proper ammo (black powder) they would be a hoot to fire on special occasions. Or just keep them as they are now.

 

[Gator 45/70]

How about a few pictures? I for one love those old Winchesters!

 

[madwabbit]

I'll put some pics up this evening.

The non-valuable is an "eastern arms co" 12 gauge, that great great granddad kept through the great depression. The short version of the family story is that "it'll feed a family even when a job won't. Never sell your last gun." Without elaborating- this gun has been through a lot in the family. It'd be a sin to ruin it in my generation with negligence or ignorance.


The other two I don't know much about, but I'm meeting with family this week and I'll be bringing the guns for a thorough history lesson. I'll be glad to post the story and pics. I received 3 lever action rifles; two winchesters dating 1880/90-something and the third I know nothing about at the time of this post. The pistols are browning hi powers and some old ruger and colt revolvers- which again, I know very little about. I'll be receiving a thorough education on them thanksgiving day. I'll update the thread when I return. Thanks for the posts fellas.

 

[dwr461]

I'd not restore them personally. Anyone can find new looking weapons, there are plenty of people who will restore them for you. But the patina that took over seventy years to create will be gone forever. That patina cannot be redone.

That being said I have a US Army 1917 rifle that my grandfather sporterized a long time before I was born. The rifle was left in a egg crate foam water proof case for about a year when I moved. The egg crate foam permanently left impressions in the wood finish. So I did choose to have a professional antique furniture restore it return the stock's wood finish back to his original one. Not the original military finish but the one grandfather had applied.


So despite my advice to leave it alone I didn't do that to my old rifle. I did however consider it repairing my negligence. I didn't do anything else to the rifle.

Dave




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[Rainsdrops]

different strokes for different folks. I'm a shooter. I'd restore and shoot the damn thing. if you are collector, don't touch it.

When my grandfather was leaving the Korean war zone, they gave them captured Japanese Arisaka, with the 6.5 carcano action.
it sat in a corner of his home many years, until I asked for it. Action was rusted stuck. I cleaned with with WD40, chambered a round and fired it.
it now wears a sporterized stock, long eye relief scope, and a 35 Remington barrel. I wanted a shooter.

my wife father, willed my 9 year an Oliver Winchester, brass receiver 38-55. in the original box, with original bullets. the gun has never been fired.
If I ever shoot it, I would need to be in the company of my divorce attorney.

Some people are shooters some are collectors.. I shoot

 

[dwr461]

Wait I thought they old looking not unsafe to shoot.

I'm a collector. I don't like to destroy history. However even in the collecting world some people take that too far. So they're yours do with them what you will.

Personally I like the look of old weapons, if they're safe to shoot. Old looking guns shoot fine, damaged ones? Not so much.

Dave

Dave


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[madwabbit]

Wait I thought they old looking not unsafe to shoot.

I'm a collector. I don't like to destroy history. However even in the collecting world some people take that too far. So they're yours do with them what you will.

Personally I like the look of old weapons, if they're safe to shoot. Old looking guns shoot fine, damaged ones? Not so much.

Dave

Dave


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I don't know if it can safely, but something that came up at lunch is that uncle doesn't think it ever has actually been fired. He says that makes it more valuable, I say thats a crying shame. The winchester that is... the cheap-o 12 guage has probably had more shots than I've had hot dinners

At this point I'm fairly sure I'm going to restore the sentimental gun and leave the lever rifles alone. I think it'll mean a lot more to have future generations shooting the "family gun". I can guarantee that pawpaw would have agreed.

I'll post pics later- but the guns aren't in bad shape, grandpaw was a collector. These two lever rifles were over his mantle since as early as I can remember.

 

[john17427]

I prefer to keep them in their natural condition if at all possible as long as they're functional and safe. I like the well used look. The exceptions have been the family guns that went through Katrina. I had several of those restored because I'm sure my kids would have thrown them away after I was gone. I had a Luger that was all matching, but not of collectable value due to excessive "patina". Refinishing it would not have raised the value anywhere near to recovering the investment it would have required so it stayed the way it came as long as I had it. Besides, it would probably have been too pretty to shoot afterwards anyway. Like Raindrops, I'm a shooter, not a collector. If it doesn't work I have a hard time justifying the space it takes up.

 

[dwr461]

By the way, Italy produced the Italian designed Carcano for Japan and was used in WW2 by the IJA in relatively small numbers. The Arisaka name is applied to an entire series of Japanese designed rifles produced in Japan and Japanese occupied countries for the IJA.

Interestingly enough the Carcano in 6.5 was also exported to Finland. The Italian military had started switching to the new caliber 6.5 Carcano when they decided to keep the caliber they had used since WW1. This was done reduce costs. They dumped the 6.5 Carcano rifles that were already manufactured on the international market. Several other countries ended up with Carcanos too.

Dave


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