primers backing out with min charge

[mr. frog]

Ive loaded some once fired rem brass with 47gr imr 4064 w/168 gr horn hpbt and win primers. This is my first batch ive made for 30-06 and i noticed the primers went in much easier than my 338. And full length resizing was much easier as well. I attributed both on the non-belted case being a different animal. The rifle i am using is a m1917 eddystone. Factory rounds show a slight buldge around the base, but nothing too pronounced and no signs of primer issues. The headspace on the factory loads were approximately 2.038, my reloads were 2.045 and all were 2.048 after firing. I only fired two of my handloaded rounds and stopped because both primers had backed out .009. I dont have a no-go gauge, but i used a spent case measuring 2.048 and used masking tape until achieving .007over and the bolt was very hard to close. I have also primed different batches of once fired and virgin brass, and the primers seem to be equally easy to push in.
My questions: Does 47 grains seem light enough to not allow the pressure to reseat the primer upon firing?
Is my crude method of checking my headspace on that rifle accurate?
Would pictures help?

 

[highstandard40]

If you consider that according to the Lyman 49th manual that 50 grains of IMR4064 is a suggested maximum load, I'm surprised you were able to lift the bolt handle after firing 70 grains. WAY over pressured at 70 grains. Or was it 47 grains?

 

[Gator 45/70]

1.^ What he said

2. Do an internet search about the Winchester primer's, Not good.

 

[mr. frog]

Mustve glanced at my 338 data . Sorry bout that.
I have heard rather mixed to bad reviews about winchester... Well everything winchester. To test that theory, i will pull them and reload a few with cci. Or rem. But i honestly wouldnt think that is the problem. At least its one thing more i can rule out. Thanx for the reply.

 

[highstandard40]

There is one other thing I would like to ask about. Describe how are you taking the measurement to arrive at 2.045" for headspace.

 

[mr. frog]

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Set zero at 2.048 and measured with comparator gauge.

 

[mr. frog]

The two reloads measured 2.045 before firing and 2.034 (after i realized to adjust for the primer sticking out.). So the case was shortened quite a bit, i reckon. Does my assumption of too low a load seem viable?

 

[highstandard40]

The SAAMI length of a 30-06 case should be about 2.047" to the mid point of the shoulder but chambers do vary somewhat. The load of 47 grains cannot cause a primer to setback unless you have excessive headspace. I would fireform the cases to fit your chamber. Once this is done, I would size the cases so that the sizing die does not touch the shoulder and maintain that headspace from now on.

 

[mr. frog]

I am suprised factory loads didnt show signs of excess pressure or headspace, as which im sure they had to be loaded a little hotter than my reloads and their headspace was a good bit shy of the saami specs of 2.048 that i have seen. Although the buldge in the factory cases was slightly more pronounced than my reloads. I was sceptical about 47 grains being to light, as i have seen other manuals state 45 as the min.
A nother note. I did notice some concentrated deposits in the begining to center of the bore.
How well do rice grits work for fire forming?
And also, why would my headspace shrink so much after firing my loads and not the factories?

 

[highstandard40]

You've got so much strange stuff going on there that I would advise you to get together with an experienced handloader to help you work through this issue hands on. As far as grits to fireform, I have used that method in the past but no longer do. I now use cast bullets (cheaper than jacketed for the purpose). I don't feel comfortable describing my method in an open forum because it is an advanced method and it's easy to screw it up if you aren't well versed in the method.

 

[mr. frog]

The only experienced reloader i knew, recently passed and left me where he left off. And this particular rifle i am attempting to reload was not owned by him, so i am starting from scratch, basically, with load development.
So, i turn to you, internet. Advanced methods is what i wanna hear.
I also cast for my revolver... I dont have a mould for the rifles yet

 

[sgt z]

You may want to get that headspace checked with gages by a gunsmith, just to play it safe. Your rifle is pushing the century mark.

 

[mr. frog]

looks like i can blame this one on a bad batch of range brass. i took a few different lots of range brass and fireformed them with unique and grits, and only that particular lot showed signs of primer back out. The fact that i've never had any other ammo show signs of headspace issues, and this was my first attempt at reloading for this particular cartridge, i had to point the finger at my unexperience in reloading, and not my rifle. The concentration of black stuff in the beggining of the rifling, i can only speculate, was the result of decreased velocity and the explosion not chasing the bullet all the way down the barrel.

at any rate, i think my range brass inspection methods need much improvement. thanks for the feedback.

 

[mr. frog]

1.^ What he said

2. Do an internet search about the Winchester primer's, Not good.

yeah, i think i'm gonna stay away from win primers now. thanks for the heads up

 

[CHW2021]

Mr. Frog, I am not a reloader; but, with your comment "The rifle i am using is a m1917 eddystone. Factory rounds show a slight buldge around the base, but nothing too pronounced and no signs of primer issues." I feel that you may be having other issues regarding headspace on this rifle. I do believe that it should be checked by a competent gunsmith before going further.

I do not believe that a case failure will make your day, and since you are saying factory ammo is showing a bulge this is indicating a rifle issue moreso than a reloading problem. Safety first.