Primitive weapons or what ever it is called by LDWF...... why?

[tbone]

A lot of us old timers that fought for an extra week of season in the woods with our percussion cap muzzleloaders and offered to pay an extra $10 for the privilege. This move by the LDWF has been a slap in the face. It's a progression of events spirited by people who want everything the easy way without having to work for it.
Can't manage to operate a percussion cap muzzleloader, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF to allow muzzleloaders with shotgun primers, disk propellants and scopes.
Can't seem to get a deer in range of a muzzleloader, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF into allowing brass cartridge single shot rifles with the same ballistics of rifles allowed in rifle season.
Can't make a hit on a deer with one shot, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF into allowing any rifle as long as you buy the extra $10 license.
Result. Woods are just as crowded as in rifle season because anyone can operate a brass cartridge rifle in all calibers.
It's the same with the archery season. Bowhunters petitioned LDWF to allow them to hunt by themselves in the woods with a bow and volunteered to pay an extra $10 for the privilege.
When only bows drawn and held by human power were allowed, I never ran into many people who were willing to put in the time it took to get a bow shooting right, get all of the gear together that was required to hunt with a bow and arrow, put in the practice time to be able to shoot a bow straight and hit a deer and spend the time learning to hunt deer at 15 to 25 yards. So the people who want everything easy got their legislators to coerce LDWF into allowing crossbows with scopes. Now the woods are crowded with every tom, dick and harry who can buy a crossbow, have their archery pro sight in the scope and go into the woods after minimal effort on their part.
It's like shooting a rifle. Fortunately, most of them give it up after they find that it isn't easy to get a deer in range of a crossbow. The rest talk about shooting at long ranges that they have no business taking shots and it is now dangerous to archery hunt in the woods with those people.
I suppose soon they will allow rifles during archery season because it's too hard to kill a deer with an arrow. You have to track the deer and all that and that takes knowledge and experience. It's too hard to shoot a crossbow out of that little window on the box they sit in and the deer don't always stand still in the corn they have out.
And LDWF fostered all of this for more revenue.
And that's how I feel about all of this.
And I still hunt with a bow and arrow and a .54 caliber muzzleloader with a patched round ball.

 

[Emperor]

A lot of us old timers that fought for an extra week of season in the woods with our percussion cap muzzleloaders and offered to pay an extra $10 for the privilege. This move by the LDWF has been a slap in the face. It's a progression of events spirited by people who want everything the easy way without having to work for it.
Can't manage to operate a percussion cap muzzleloader, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF to allow muzzleloaders with shotgun primers, disk propellants and scopes.
Can't seem to get a deer in range of a muzzleloader, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF into allowing brass cartridge single shot rifles with the same ballistics of rifles allowed in rifle season.
Can't make a hit on a deer with one shot, get your legislator to coerce the LDWF into allowing any rifle as long as you buy the extra $10 license.
Result. Woods are just as crowded as in rifle season because anyone can operate a brass cartridge rifle in all calibers.
It's the same with the archery season. Bowhunters petitioned LDWF to allow them to hunt by themselves in the woods with a bow and volunteered to pay an extra $10 for the privilege.
When only bows drawn and held by human power were allowed, I never ran into many people who were willing to put in the time it took to get a bow shooting right, get all of the gear together that was required to hunt with a bow and arrow, put in the practice time to be able to shoot a bow straight and hit a deer and spend the time learning to hunt deer at 15 to 25 yards. So the people who want everything easy got their legislators to coerce LDWF into allowing crossbows with scopes. Now the woods are crowded with every tom, dick and harry who can buy a crossbow, have their archery pro sight in the scope and go into the woods after minimal effort on their part.
It's like shooting a rifle. Fortunately, most of them give it up after they find that it isn't easy to get a deer in range of a crossbow. The rest talk about shooting at long ranges that they have no business taking shots and it is now dangerous to archery hunt in the woods with those people.
I suppose soon they will allow rifles during archery season because it's too hard to kill a deer with an arrow. You have to track the deer and all that and that takes knowledge and experience. It's too hard to shoot a crossbow out of that little window on the box they sit in and the deer don't always stand still in the corn they have out.
And LDWF fostered all of this for more revenue.
And that's how I feel about all of this.
And I still hunt with a bow and arrow and a .54 caliber muzzleloader with a patched round ball.

Tbone, If it's any consolation, I used to have a rotary phone when I was a kid!

Hey, seriously though, it's the way things go man. We are all living at the speed of light nowadays. Every purist yearns for days gone by. These changes are not necessarily a bad thing with reference to revenues. Look at the stats! There are less people hunting now, not more. These revenues are needed to keep healthy deer populations so REAL hunters like you and I, can get them.

F, everybody else!

 

[Labeeman]

I hear ya tbone. It's not that I don't want a primitive season it's just that the rifle LDWF are allowing people to use is not a primitive rifle, so why even call it that. Either have a true primitive weapons season or allow any type of rifle. It's a revenue producer, I get that, but lets cut the crap and call it what it is. Where I hunt at, the deer don't really start to move until Christmas so I would love to have a longer season.

 

[hunter5567]

The way it's going, they might as well allow anything that's not a semi-automatic since they are all considered primitive compared to an AR, etc.

 

[Bayouhunting]

Bravo tbone! Bravo! Couldn't agree more.

 

[mike84z28]

Makes it all the more special when you pull that deer out with your bow or recurve or muzzleloader, keep hunting and enjoy the satisfaction tbone !

 

[topgunz1]

It took me 3 years to get a deer at 100 yards, so I'm grateful for the extra hunting time and performance or a better caliber to help me out as I'm learning the craft. Maybe one day I'll get bored and want to up the degree of difficulty, but for right now it's hard enough!

 

[tbone]

Thanks for the compliments. By no means am I trying to belittle anyone who uses whatever legal methods to take their deer. I just thought some of you might not know the history of the present regulations or how some of us who were there at the beginning might feel about the present state of affairs.
As for the revenue. LDWF is forced to adopt creative methods of increasing the revenue stream because the legislature is dead set against increasing license fees in our "poor" state. Just a brief look at other states' resident fees will show that Louisiana is a steal. I mean $10 to hunt squirrels, rabbits, quail, woodcock or doves and an additional $10 to have the opportunity to harvest up to 6 deer and 2 turkeys is extremely a bargain. So, when LDWF goes to the legislature for increased license fees and are denied time and time again, they get creative and allow all kinds of weapons during what used to be primitive seasons to increase revenue. These rules can be passed by the Commission and do not have to go to the Legislature except for the Legislative Oversight Committee.
My comment about the loss of sales of hunting and fishing licenses would be that the exponential increase in the number of rules and regulations since the '60's has done more to decrease the number of participants than anything else. The hunting and fishing pamphlet has probably doubled in size since then. Every year more and more regulations are passed. The average person just can't keep up. Then when they get some ticket for something that really does nothing to conserve the resource and it costs them $100 to $200, they quit. And their kids never start.
Leasing of vast acreages of private land and no increase in available public land has lent itself to decreases in the number of hunters. Where a couple of hundred people used to squirrel hunt or rabbit hunt on a 1,000 acres you now have 10 or 20 people leasing that to deer hunt only. That right there is a loss of many license sales and has basically killed small game hunting in Louisiana.
People try to go to public areas to hunt and there is a hunter sitting in every tree or a blind in every pothole. They get frustrated with their hunts being spoiled by overcrowding and quit. An angler goes out in the marsh to catch a red or some bass and gets a trespassing ticket for being in a 1,000 acre marsh leased and used by 10 or 20 people. There's a loss of a few hundred fishing licenses.
I'm not against leasing. I believe that a private landowner has and should have the right to do whatever with property that they own but it has contributed to a decline in the sale of hunting and fishing licenses.
There must be land available somewhere that LDWF could purchase or lease to put in the WMA system to increase the public opportunity to have a place to hunt or fish. I don't understand why this is rarely done anymore.

 

[Emperor]

Tbone, I am going to come back to this and respond to some of your points in a while; but quickly in regard to fishing.

No one can gate or block access to any waterway that existed as a navigable waterway pre-dating 1890 or so (I forget the actual date). I too, am a staunch property rights advocate, but I was part of regulatory process finally determining the gated waterways controversy.

That said; pre-dug oil canals or natural ponds that formed as a process of erosion over time on private property or not included. So, I would question that this is causing a decline in fishing licenses. If you want to know what I think is the single biggest factor for the decline in fishing participation, it is the costs.

And you are right about this, the license fees to harvest game and fish in Louisiana are ridiculously generous. But, you would be surprised which so-called "conservation" group is the biggest hindrance!

 

[Emperor]

Ok, I'm back.

Most of your assertions other than trespassing while fishing are somewhat accurate but for these few points.

Small game hunting, and particularly squirrel hunting is down as a result of a cultural shift more than anything else. Quite simply, not as many people eat squirrels anymore and thus the result is not much new interest by new hunters. I loved to hunt squirrels in the 80's and went every chance I got, and still like to squirrel hunt now. But not nearly as much as before and really only because I don't split time between them and deer. I do like to go in October and definitely go for the Spring season (which by the way, most people don't know exists), and will go in February, but as you know, that is challenging to say the least. And I eat them!

My kid is learning to enjoy it too. But, for every kid that comes in, two old farts like us are dying out or giving it up for many reasons. The math on that tells the story.

As for public hunting; Louisiana has some of the nicest public areas around. If you go deer hunting on opening day or the either sex lottery hunts, then of course you will see a lot of users. However, if you are willing to travel a bit there are Mgt Areas where there is significantly less pressure and even on opening days. If you look at the numbers that show success ratio per hunting effort and number of efforts you would be surprised how many really good Mgt areas are not even being hunted. And even though it's been many years since I was there, I guarantee I could take my boat to Pearl River Mgt area and hunt the same places I did in the 80's and still kill deer. And squirrels? Egad, they have tons. Limits were nothing for us and with only .22's.

The regs that you site being piled up too high? We live in the times where guys are hunting with AR's and 30 round mags. Nobody did that 15 years ago much worse 50. And as scumbags found more and more ways to poach or cheat you had to update to the times.

Look, I get what you are saying. But as I said, you are a purist. Tbone, we are a dying breed. But we can't turn our backs on the sport just because it's changing. BTW: LDW&F had set up a Mentor Program where seasoned hunters sign up to take kids hunting and teach them ways of the elders. Did you participate? I did! I took my kids, my wife, and some the kids in the neighborhood. Out of the 7 people I took with me, at least 4 will go on their own. The other 3, we'll have to see.

 

[Bayouhunting]

And you are right about this, the license fees to harvest game and fish in Louisiana are ridiculously generous. But, you would be surprised which so-called "conservation" group is the biggest hindrance!

Wouldn't be DU would it?

 

[Metryshooter]

I can understand what some of you are saying but from my perspective things like squirrels are not hunted often because of the lack of exposure. As far as deer and duck hunting go they seem to be following suit to a lesser degree.
When I was younger I was fortunate enough to be exposed to duck hunting, but now that I'm older with children the costs associated with it seem exorbitant, to a lesser degree deer hunting is as well. Why? I can either wait my turn to pay often crazy prices for a club and endure their rules/fees, or I can take my son on public lands (nearest is Honey Island) and, well we've all read about the types you can run into out there.
Either way , as it stands I don't see a feasible way to go hunting without being exposed to people just as inclined to shoot you as the quart.

 

[LSUSMC]

Anyone else hear that H&R is discontinuing all of their single shot rifles and shotguns?

 

[highstandard40]

I have heard that but can't confirm it.

 

[Win1917]

Hard to imagine they'd discontinue their single shots. That's about the only H&R you see these days and they're everywhere. Who knows though. Company could be on hard times or their holding company has other plans for the brand.

 

[hunter5567]

They are discontining them. The barrel accessory program is already defunct. More details at Graybeard outdoor forums in the H&R section.

 

[Win1917]

Bummer. My first gun was an H&R 565 22lr my dad gave me when I was about 10.

 

[Gus McCrae]

They are discontining them. The barrel accessory program is already defunct. More details at Graybeard outdoor forums in the H&R section.

My father in law just got his authorization for the barrel accessory program last week.

 

[LSUSMC]

My father in law just got his authorization for the barrel accessory program last week.

I thought they stopped that a couple years ago

Here is a link to the Graybeard thread: http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/hr-rifles-and-shotguns-stops-production/

 

[hunter5567]

They still have a few barrels left and one gunsmith left to fit them. They laid off about 130 employees and they are discontinuing the single shot rifles and shotguns. There are still some out there at Distributors and gun stores including walmart. CVA still has their's out there and Rossi.