Px4's - Compact vs. Subcompact

[JHenley17]

Has anyone shot both? I'm looking into getting a 9mm to carry, I want one with low recoil that my fiancee will be comfortable shooting as well. I know that SC uses a tilt barrel as opposed to the rotating barrels on the bigger models that are supposed to reduce recoil. Is there a notable difference between them?

And has anyone been able to compare them to an M&P 9c? I'm looking for something heavier than 20oz with an external safety available and that seems to be the only other 9mm I could afford that fits the bill. I was looking at J-frames as well because I love my Model 10 snub, but everything that isn't an airweight is out of my range.

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[Vanilla Gorilla]

Why the storms? What criteria are you using to make your selection? Why 20oz and why external safety? It may serve you better to establish a selection criteria before you settle on options.

 

[JHenley17]

Just comfort preferences. I don't have a ton of experience and I'm much more comfortable with the extra weight. It also helps with recoil, which will help her to be more willing to learn to use it. I love my 96fs, the Storms seem to be similar. I also like the DA/SA that hammers offer, but I'm not completely opposed to strikers. External safety is also a preference. I know it's just in my head, but for some reason, I'm fine with my revolvers not having one, but I like them on automatics.

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[dtd80]

The compact will have less recoil. Uncle had a sc and cousin has a compact. The sc had more recoil. I also find the sc short nose a bit ugly. Ergonomics are identical as far as grip and safety placement.

 

[JHenley17]

Cool, that's what I was looking for. I don't think the overall length difference is enough to give up anything else. And yeah, I agree, it looks a little weird.

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[JBP55]

Some quotes from experienced shooters about the pistols in question.

The post came from a former Beretta employee who trains people nationwide and shoots about 50,000 rounds a year.


***** is already pretty concrete on the matter based off of seeing them in his classes, where LEOs have actually showed up with mallets knowing that it would lock up between 300-500 rounds.

Not to speak in his stead, but he was pretty vocal against the project when he worked in Beretta's LE division. Having been involved in the product's development, I think he has all the data he needs to make a credible statement on the piece.

Another Quote:
At a class in Canada, he spoke with LE folk that are issued PX4s. They said they routinely need a mallet to un seize the weapons.

Another:
The rotating barrel Berettas have crucial metal-on-metal contact areas where torquing forces are directed (barrel breach area, similar area on inner slide, and cam tooth/cam tooth track areas). The guns need to be run relatively wet (i.e., more than just a protectant film of lube) in these areas, or the lube migrates/evaporates/burns off, and the gun locks up tight; you have the choice of either waiting until everything cools down and the metal slightly shrinks, or using the mallet approach to speed thing up so that you can apply requisite lube.

Another.

I was thinking that in a PX4, as opposed to a Cougar, the disassembly levers could be pulled, slide removed, and then any barrel & locking block issues could be remediated.

The whole assembly of recoil spring, locking block, barrel, and slide come off as a whole sub assembly--and easily once the disassembly lever is engaged.

If it is locked up between the barrel track and locking block tooth, I could see using some type of impact force to jog the system loose, but that would be after you've removed the slide.

I've also noticed that the barrel on the cougar is noticeably different than the PX4 where the barrel contacts the slide.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Just comfort preferences. I don't have a ton of experience and I'm much more comfortable with the extra weight. It also helps with recoil, which will help her to be more willing to learn to use it. I love my 96fs, the Storms seem to be similar. I also like the DA/SA that hammers offer, but I'm not completely opposed to strikers. External safety is also a preference. I know it's just in my head, but for some reason, I'm fine with my revolvers not having one, but I like them on automatics.

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I would recommend that you suspend pre-conceived notions temporarily and that you and the misses find a class. Not a CCW Class but an actual class on Pistolcraft that offers loaner guns. After doing some shooting you will have a MUCH better idea what your needs are and how to meet them. My bet is you will be shocked about what you didn't know.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Some quotes from experienced shooters about the pistols in question.

The post came from a former Beretta employee who trains people nationwide and shoots about 50,000 rounds a year.


***** is already pretty concrete on the matter based off of seeing them in his classes, where LEOs have actually showed up with mallets knowing that it would lock up between 300-500 rounds.

Not to speak in his stead, but he was pretty vocal against the project when he worked in Beretta's LE division. Having been involved in the product's development, I think he has all the data he needs to make a credible statement on the piece.

Another Quote:
At a class in Canada, he spoke with LE folk that are issued PX4s. They said they routinely need a mallet to un seize the weapons.

Another:
The rotating barrel Berettas have crucial metal-on-metal contact areas where torquing forces are directed (barrel breach area, similar area on inner slide, and cam tooth/cam tooth track areas). The guns need to be run relatively wet (i.e., more than just a protectant film of lube) in these areas, or the lube migrates/evaporates/burns off, and the gun locks up tight; you have the choice of either waiting until everything cools down and the metal slightly shrinks, or using the mallet approach to speed thing up so that you can apply requisite lube.

Another.

I was thinking that in a PX4, as opposed to a Cougar, the disassembly levers could be pulled, slide removed, and then any barrel & locking block issues could be remediated.

The whole assembly of recoil spring, locking block, barrel, and slide come off as a whole sub assembly--and easily once the disassembly lever is engaged.

If it is locked up between the barrel track and locking block tooth, I could see using some type of impact force to jog the system loose, but that would be after you've removed the slide.

I've also noticed that the barrel on the cougar is noticeably different than the PX4 where the barrel contacts the slide.

We have had a smattering of these guns in class and I have observed them to be trash. The Full-Size guns Jam, The SC has a way to high bore axis and is a hard gun to hold on to.

 

[JBP55]

We have had a smattering of these guns in class and I have observed them to be trash. The Full-Size guns Jam, The SC has a way to high bore axis and is a hard gun to hold on to.

I am a former owner of one.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

former...

 

[LNSvince]

Not a CCW Class but an actual class on Pistolcraft that offers loaner guns.

you will be shocked about what you didn't know.

VG makes a serious point here. These are not toys, and hopefully the day never comes that you MUST use it...........

My wife was adamant about her "cute" pistols in cool colors, or tiny size to the point that anymore pleas on her switching to a real firearm would start a huge argument.
I took her to a reputable beginners class and kept my mouth shut so she could find out for herself. I too was a beginner , another reason to keep my mouth shut.
Needless to say, one of the instructors [ VG ] "THANKFULLY" took the damn thing away from her, and made her shoot a real pistol.

Changed her life and mine too. I feel much better now that SHE feels more comfortable with a pistol that best fits her framework.
No more, Look how cute it is, or how cool the color is when she is shooting with her sisters.
Back to the -- These are not toys, and God forbid the day comes she has to use it, I know she is better prepared and has a real fighting chance.

Now take that woman of yours and get her [ the both of you ] some real training. Even on a budget, its money well spent, rather than wasted on opinions.

 

[AustinBR]

I have a Px4 Storm Compact. It is a fun range gun!

 

[JHenley17]

I have no doubt we should attend a class, but where I'm at right now, from the handful of handguns that I've shot, the above criteria are what seem to fit me well and what I can shoot well with. I'm not looking for a cute gun, and after I let her shoot an LC9, neither is she. I want to get something less than full size, but that I can still put a few hundred rounds through comfortably in an afternoon.

Thanks for the info, though. I from what I could find, it seemed like the problems had been resolved by now, but I guess not.

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[doc ace]

I'll always say the G19 is weighted perfectly and has minimal recoil for great follow up shots. Nothing to hang up on or any fancy safeties, just point and shoot. If you need more weight put the 17 rd mag in it; these men on here are letting you know from personal and well known law enforcement experience that the PX4 is known to jam and be alleviated with a fricking mallet! Not something I look for when my life depends on it.

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

if you're looking for opinions go with a Sig Sauer p229 if you prefer a steel framed hammer fired pistol. If you decide on a polymer framed striker fired pistol over 20oz, go with a Glock 19.

If you want real world synopsis on what you should do for a carry pistol, follow VG's advise.
I've never taken his class but I hear a lot of good, sensible info about it.

 

[AustinBR]

@OP - You originally asked about the M&P Compact vs the Beretta Compact. I bought my Beretta Compact because I found a super awesome deal on it. In hindsight, I should have waited it out and bought a M&P C. Don't get me wrong, the Beretta is a great range gun and is terrible fun to shoot. I personally like the rotating barrel as it does noticeably decrease recoil. For a self defense gun that would be carried, I would not recommend it though.

 

[JHenley17]

Well, if it can't be relied on for defense, I'll probably won't get it for now. I don't feel I'm proficient enough to carry, but I want to practice with what I will eventually carry, which is why I'm looking for something in addition to my 96, which I just got because it was a good deal and I wanted a handgun for home defense.

VG, you are an instructor? Where can I find info on your class?

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[AustinBR]

Well, if it can't be relied on for defense, I'll probably won't get it for now. I don't feel I'm proficient enough to carry, but I want to practice with what I will eventually carry, which is why I'm looking for something in addition to my 96, which I just got because it was a good deal and I wanted a handgun for home defense.

VG, you are an instructor? Where can I find info on your class?

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http://www.advantagegrouptraining.com/

He is one of the best and is also a site sponsor.

 

[JHenley17]

if you're looking for opinions go with a Sig Sauer p229 if you prefer a steel framed hammer fired pistol. If you decide on a polymer framed striker fired pistol over 20oz, go with a Glock 19.

I'll have to check the Sig out.

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[JHenley17]

http://www.advantagegrouptraining.com/

He is one of the best and is also a site sponsor.

Cool, thanks. Guess I'll PM him my queations.

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