revolver for POST instructor?

[JR1572]

I can see this too. Honestly I'd probably be more efficient with my g35 than a revolver I haven't trained on for more than a couple of months. I haven't even seen the instructor qualification course of fire yet though, and everyone I've talked to so far is making me nervous about it.

JR, anyone can score 120's all day long on the regular POST course if they have even a modicum of training and are paying attention. The normal POST course is a joke.


You guys sure are feisty about this topic, I just wanted to know what types of revolvers everyone uses when they shoot the course.

ETA: I probably shouldn't say 120's all day long, everyone makes mistakes. I'll say the cutoff should be more like 115. First time I shot it, I had never seen it before and was flat out embarrassed to turn in a 117 target.

We're trying to make you understand that shooting this course with a revolver when you carry a semi-auto is not a good idea. Consistency.

People fail to qualify all the time. I've worked at 2 very large departments and it's a common occurrence. It's a joke to us because we shoot, it's a nightmare to others. Shooting good is only half of the ingredients to be a good instructor. You also have to have the maturity, experience, and patience to teach the ones who need their skills brought up to a higher level.

JR1572

 

[Just A Number]

*cough* my duty weapon was a revolver when I first started, as I said take it with your duty weapon.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Law enforcement firearms qualification has been rounded down to the least common denominator for so many years that it is now laughable.

I've seen many officers that I would not trust with a potato gun and definitely would not trust the to back me up on a hot scene.
But that's the whole point, to make it so easy that people who should not be carrying guns and badges are.




.

 

[JBP55]

*cough* my duty weapon was a revolver when I first started, as I said take it with your duty weapon.

Mine was a revolver as well but that was 40 years ago and the course was more difficult Pre POST.

 

[Barry J]

When I started in law enforcement about 35 years ago, there was no POST. I went with my Captain behind some guys house in the country and shot at a tartget a few times. I had never shot a pistol before. Wish I still had that gun. It was a Colt Trooper.

 

[JBP55]

We were taught Combat procedures with a revolver shooting double action only.
Positions taught were:
1. Crouch.
2. Mexican Defense Stance.
3. Kneeling.
4. Barricade.
5. Sitting.
6. Prone.

 

[4sooth]

What is the course of fire for the instructors course??

 

[pwl822]

25 yd bullseye target. unsupported one or two handed standing position. 5rd 2minute.twice. 5rd 20 seconds twice. 5rd 10 sec twice. max score 300 min 240. shot rain sleet or snow or in my case tornado watch. what memories are made for. moving on if you pass. FBI course if you pass .then post course. then writen test. then week long instructor course

 

[oldman45]

I still have both my S&W 19 and the 66 that replaced it from the late 60's. The better part is I can still qualify anywhere with either.

In fact, I wish I could find someone with a 4" model 66 from some agency that I could buy for my 31 yr old daughter. She cannot stand auto loaders and I am not letting her have any of my current collection of revolvers until she inherits them. I will buy her one when I can find one.

 

[swamper]

I've been trying to find it, but my Google-fu is lacking today. Does anyone have the original, more stringent POST course of fire?

 

[JBP55]

I've been trying to find it, but my Google-fu is lacking today. Does anyone have the original, more stringent POST course of fire?

May not be the original but I can give you the POST course as fired before the last change about 4 years ago. If LSP972 does not have a copy of the original POST course he may be able to get one from from a retired LSP friend who helped write the course and is still involved with a local LEA.

 

[swamper]

Thanks, Steve.

I never knew about the 50 yard work and have never done any practice to that distance with the pistol. That's gonna be something to look into. Nowadays, anything beyond 25 yards has been considered long-gun territory from most of the classes I've attended.

The B-27 target will be something to use. I've been doing 25 yard stuff with the B-16. My 25 yard hits were so bad; I had to get something that would make me slow down and use good fundamentals. After seeing Kyle Defoor using the B-8, I believe, I started working with that. I still suck. My best is 15 out of 25 in the black...not timed (averaging around 11 out of 25 in the black if memory serves). Doing that under time at the VTAC class did open that group up quite a bit though. Still workin' on it....

I've always been confused in my interpretation of "left and right-hand barricade." Is that the normal two-handed grip (right or left hand) with barricade support on the gun hand side? My confusion comes in probably interpreting that too literally as in one-handed shooting.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[SpeedRacer]

Reese...

The P.O.S.T. Council finally got funding and was made official in the late 70s. The first "official course of fire" was promulgated in 1980, I believe.

I cannot speak for other agencies, but up until 1981-82, LSP fired the NRA National Match "course" for qualification. 60 rounds:

12 rounds @ 7 yards in 25 seconds standing no support
18 rounds @ 25 yards in 90 seconds (6 kneeling non-supported, 6 each left-and right hand barricade standing supported)
24 rounds @ 50 yards in 160 seconds (6 sitting non-supported, 6 prone, 6 left and 6 right hand barricade standing supported)
6 rounds @ 25 yards in 12 seconds standing no support

It was and is, depending upon what target is used, quite challenging; particularly when one is loading out of his pocket or a dump pouch. We were issued, and required to use, the latter in the LSP Academy. They wouldn't let us use speedloaders. When I asked why not, I was told to STFU... (we were allowed to carry and use speedloaders after graduating. I have no clue what the deal was with that- one of life's little mysteries) . We shot it on the B-27; anything inside the 8 ring was five points; anything between the 8 ring and 7 ring was four points; anything outside of the 7 ring but still "on the black" was three points. Possible 300 points, needed 225 to pass.

Again, AFAIK, only State Police and the possum cops did any serious 50 yard shooting. I know that some other agencies used a variation of this National Match course, minus the 50 yard stage (they put those 24 rounds somewhere else, up close).

The new, "official" P.O.S.T. course was as follows (sorry, don't recall the time allowances, but they were generous):

6 rounds @ 2 yards
12 rounds @ 4 yards
24 rounds @ 7 yards
18 rounds @ 25 yards

Everything except the 25 yard stage was shot standing with no support (at 7 yards, 6 rounds were shot kneeling no support and 6 rounds off-hand only)

The 25 yard stage was the same as the National Match course (kneeling and barricades). This course was fired until 1992, when it was substantially dumbed down (mainly in the scoring method) and the P1 target was adopted.

It was changed yet again in 2008, ostensibly to be "more realistic". In truth, they took six rounds out of the 25 yard stage and put them at 15, to help the "disadvantaged shooters". Don't ask; just think about it...

.

Sounds like they keep making it easier...yet people still want to game it. That's gotta make you giggle.

It'd be interesting to set up a POST Instructor course (the good one with 50yd shots) and grab a sampling of shooters to try it. I'm thinking a hardcore gamer, an average LE officer and an average enthusiast who's taken a few civilian classes and see how they do. All using the same stock Glock 17 or 22. I'd love to try it, although I have no illusions about scoring even remotely well. Follow up with the modern POST Instructor course and see the difference.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Does anyone recall the old 360 point qualification course of fire?

Or was that just a Texas thing?




.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Must have been a Texas thing.

Although, Texas recently changed the TCLOSE (their version of P.O.S.T.) course to completely eliminate the 25 yard line.

That's coming here next; its been a topic of discussion for several years. No matter how some try to fight the "dumb-down trend", political correctness is an unstoppable beast. It certainly slapped ME down (despite overwhelming evidence that I was right), twice. First when our brass got scared by a lawsuit- which went all the way to the state supreme court, and we won because we did everything right and the plaintiffs were totally wrong- and second when we videotaped myself and one of my guys shooting the "new" P.O.S.T. course (the one that was replaced in 2008) BLINDFOLDED. I "passed" with a 98, my other guy shot a 92; just short of passing.

We showed the tape- which was totally unedited, as the other two guys "helping" us, by telling us which way to point our guns, let the camera run until it was done- to a few certain folks with horsepower (not LSP) who make these decisions. They viewed it without comment and thanked us for our "interest". The next day, a thunderbolt from North Foster Drive (our old HQ) summoned me forthwith, where I was told by the Chief of Staff to lose the tape, forget the whole deal, and NEVER do anything like that again.

Mind you, this was a while AFTER I raised hell about the guy who was the chairman of the "new P.O.S.T. course committee", when I found out who it was. This guy had just been indicted- along with a sheriff who was a retired trooper- for trying to defraud a parish police jury out of a prison contract. I was told- by my people- to STFU about that one too, it wasn't our concern. Right.

Anyway... not my dog anymore. Retirement is good...

.

That 360 course was a pain to shoot.
The last time I shot it was in 1979 so it has been a couple of years.

Totally agree with the dumbing down especially since I watched one that filed a civil service appeal hitting nothing but dirt.


This goes along with my opinion that law enforcement agencies are no longer hiring the best and brightest.
When they do get a good one, it is usually by mistake.


Yep, retirement lets me laugh at things that used to boil my blood!




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[rjbuilder]

I am retited Louisiana LE and was 20 years a P.O.S.T. f/a instuctor. Shot qualification day with my 4" 686 along with about 150 oyhers trying to qualify. Only about 30 of us passed that day. I used to shoot a Beretta 92D for requalifing. Requalifing is fun but trying to qualify that first day takes some work. It's like they say. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Pigfish73]

I used a 4" Model 66 when I went through the POST instructor school. I had been shooting PPC matches for about 2 years prior to trying out. I think the deciding factor on which gun I used was the fact that I had 2.5 cases of PD 38 wadcutters and no 9 mm's! I also had 12 speedloaders for the 66, but only 3 magazines for my Sig. So, I was able to shoot all of the courses without having to load mags or speedloaders during the COF.
I am now one of the instructors that teaches the POST Firearms instructor school. I do the shotgun and car segments on Wednesday and Thursday.
I hope to see you on tryout day. Practice, Practice, Practice!