S.649 Gun Control Package

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  • Bill Baldwin

    Well-Known Member
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    Jul 4, 2012
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    the gun control package is finally available and has been placed on the Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders, Calendar No. 32. There is some good news and some bad news. The old S. 54 (pdf), Stop Illegal Trafficking in Firearms Act of 2013 is there, which included:

    932. Straw purchasing of firearms
    (a) Any person (other than [an FFL]) who knowingly purchases any firearm for, on behalf of, or with intent to transfer it to, any other person, if that firearm has moved in or otherwise affected interstate or foreign commerce, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years or both. For purposes of this section, the term ‘purchases’ includes the receipt of any firearm from pawn or on consignment by a person who does not own the firearm.

    The exception was that you can gift the firearm to certain family members, but not receive anything of value in return. I thought this was stupid and made the complaint that what if I my daughter wanted to purchase a firearm from a private seller but was concerned about meeting a stranger? Under this bill, it would have been a felony for me to stand in her place to make that transaction on her behalf. I also asked, Why not just make the obtaining and transferring of a firearm to a prohibited person a trafficking offense? Good news, the language was amended.

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any person (other than [an FFL]) to knowingly purchase, or attempt or conspire to purchase, any firearm in or otherwise affecting interstate or foreign commerce–

    (2) from any person who is not [an FFL] for, on behalf of, or at the request or demand of any other person, known or unknown, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such other person–

    Is a prohibited person. Now this bill makes sense. It’s already against the law to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person, but this bill will make it a felony to acquire a firearm specifically to transfer it to a prohibited person.

    Remember Fast and Furious? So does the Senate. Contained in the Trafficking section is this little nugget:

    SEC. 207. LIMITATION ON OPERATIONS BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

    The Department of Justice, and any of its law enforcement coordinate agencies, shall not conduct any operation where a Federal firearms licensee is directed, instructed, enticed, or otherwise encouraged by the Department of Justice to sell a firearm to an individual if the Department of Justice, or a coordinate agency, knows or has reasonable cause to believe that such an individual is purchasing on behalf of another for an illegal purpose unless the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, or the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division personally reviews and approves the operation, in writing, and determines that the agency has prepared an operational plan that includes sufficient safeguards to prevent firearms from being transferred to third parties without law enforcement taking reasonable steps to lawfully interdict those firearms.

    The old S. 374 (pdf) Protecting Responsible Gun Sellers Act of 2013 which is actually a universal background check bill is also included in S.649, in it’s entirety. This bill requires a background check through an FFL for nearly all transfers not just sales, but even loaning your firearm for use in self defense. The exception is for bona fide gifts to certain family members, but you can’t sell your firearm to those same certain family members without a background check and going through an FFL. If Congress was serious about background checks, they would just open up the NICS for public use. Even if this bill becomes law, realistically it’s still voluntary, albeit illegal. This section also requires record keeping which is a no go for the Republicans, and gun owners, and mandatory reporting of lost or stolen firearms to the Attorney General and local law enforcement within 24 hours of discovery, there are no exceptions. Basically, if you lose a firearm while hiking, then get lost or break a leg and rescue takes more than 24 hours, you've become a felon. But, if you fail to report a lost or stolen firearm, then this requirement no longer applies to you, because that would violate your Fifth Amendment rights to self incrimination.

    The assault weapons ban with the magazine capacity limit may be offered as an amendment to S. 649 in one, two or three amendments. It can be offered as is, or just a ban on assault weapons and/or just a magazine capacity limit. I suspect it will be offered in three. If the whole kit and kaboodle get’s voted down, then there will be an amendment for just a weapons ban and an amendment just for a magazine capacity limit.

    David Vitter is against the gun control bills, Mary Landrieu, I think she's weighing her options. Feinstein either doesn't care, or doesn't know what position she’s putting her party in. There are 20 or so Dems up for reelection in 2014. If they vote no to this bill, Bloomberg and his goons will target them. If they vote yes for this bill, gun owners and 2A advocates will be targeting them. It would probably be safer for them to vote no.

    Reid said that he's only interested in a gun control package that includes background checks.
     

    carlosd321

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    Dec 2, 2009
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    So if this were to pass and you loaned out a firearm or just had it stored at someone elses home then you would be required to transfer it to them and have it transfered back later? Already owned weapons would still be grandfathered in and would not require a transfer or to be registered unless sold or gifted?
     

    Bill Baldwin

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    Jul 4, 2012
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    So if this were to pass and you loaned out a firearm or just had it stored at someone elses home then you would be required to transfer it to them and have it transfered back later? Already owned weapons would still be grandfathered in and would not require a transfer or to be registered unless sold or gifted?

    Under the proposed bill, anytime you transfer possession of any firearm, not just ownership, it must be done at an FFL and the receiver must fill out a 4473. The exceptions are:
    1. As a gift to certain family members, but you can't sell it or loan it without going through an FFL.
    2. You may loan a firearm to another while hunting, if it's in a place that's legal to hunt and the receiver has all required hunting licences.
    3.You may transfer a firearm to a prospective buyer for inspection, as long as you are present.
    4. you may loan a firearm to anyone, that's not a prohibited person, on your property, as long as the firearm stays on your property, and only for a period not to exceed 7 days.
    5. you may loan a firearm to another person while on certain target ranges, as long as the firearm doesn't leave the range, and you must transport it to and from the range.

    If you temporarily transfer a firearm to someone else, for example, safe keeping while you are out of town, that person must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check, when you return, you must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check to lawfully receive your firearms back, this would apply to all firearms, bother previously owned and new.

    If you leave town for more than seven days, and you have a roommate that has access to your safe, that could potentially be a transfer, and a felony.

    Speedracer, Sam, Jack, y'all are welcome.
     
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    Hermit

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    Jan 27, 2007
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    Under the proposed bill, anytime you transfer possession of any firearm, not just ownership, it must be done at an FFL and the receiver must fill out a 4473. The exceptions are:
    1. As a gift to certain family members, but you can't sell it or loan it without going through an FFL.
    2. You may loan a firearm to another while hunting, if it's in a place that's legal to hunt and the receiver has all required hunting licences.
    3.You may transfer a firearm to a prospective buyer for inspection, as long as you are present.
    4. you may loan a firearm to anyone, that's not a prohibited person, on your property, as long as the firearm stays on your property, and only for a period not to exceed 7 days.
    5. you may loan a firearm to another person while on certain target ranges, as long as the firearm doesn't leave the range, and you must transport it to and from the range.

    If you temporarily transfer a firearm to someone else, for example, safe keeping while you are out of town, that person must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check, when you return, you must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check to lawfully receive your firearms back, this would apply to all firearms, bother previously owned and new.

    If you leave town for more than seven days, and you have a roommate that has access to your safe, that could potentially be a transfer, and a felony.

    Speedracer, Sam, Jack, y'all are welcome.



    Ridiculous, unenforceable crappola that won't do a thing to reduce crime.
     

    trout25red

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    Feb 2, 2013
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    These are pretty ingenious ways to make you a break a gun law eventually. Then when you do, you will no longer pass any further background checks. That is back door gun control. The devil is in the details it seems.
     

    bakerman

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    Feb 23, 2013
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    Given only one choice, I would rather the assault weapons ban than the above. People need to think of all the ramifications if this were to pass. Ask yourself how in the hell it could ever be enforced.....that should scare the crap out of ANY gun owner
     
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    DS727

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    Nov 24, 2012
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    Under the proposed bill, anytime you transfer possession of any firearm, not just ownership, it must be done at an FFL and the receiver must fill out a 4473. The exceptions are:
    1. As a gift to certain family members, but you can't sell it or loan it without going through an FFL.
    2. You may loan a firearm to another while hunting, if it's in a place that's legal to hunt and the receiver has all required hunting licences.
    3.You may transfer a firearm to a prospective buyer for inspection, as long as you are present.
    4. you may loan a firearm to anyone, that's not a prohibited person, on your property, as long as the firearm stays on your property, and only for a period not to exceed 7 days.
    5. you may loan a firearm to another person while on certain target ranges, as long as the firearm doesn't leave the range, and you must transport it to and from the range.

    If you temporarily transfer a firearm to someone else, for example, safe keeping while you are out of town, that person must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check, when you return, you must fill out a 4473 and undergo a background check to lawfully receive your firearms back, this would apply to all firearms, bother previously owned and new.

    If you leave town for more than seven days, and you have a roommate that has access to your safe, that could potentially be a transfer, and a felony.

    F*ck this, and them with a rake.
     

    goodburbon

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    This is pretty much exactly what passed in colorado, and was signed into law last week. Effective July 1.

    I work away from home for 2+ weeks at a time, I still haven't worked out how I'm going to legally go to work and not bring every gun and magazine I own with me.
     

    Lion_hunter

    Getting There
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    Mar 1, 2009
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    Completely unacceptable! I agree with trout25red, this is a back door elimination of gun rights. The details of this bill need to be brought to light for all gun owners, and we need to make some phones ring off the hook in DC...
     

    Suburbazine

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    I like and wholeheartedly support the parts about banning people from picking up someone else's pawned gun and the block on Fast and Furious type deals.

    The rest of it, not so much.
     

    hunter5567

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    Oct 9, 2006
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    To me, transfer means transferring ownership. If I leave town for 2 weeks and come back home, my stuff is still my stuff whether I leave for 2 minutes or 2 years and whether or not anyone else lives in the home or not. I'm not giving my stuff away every time I want to go out of town. Just like if I go to my mom's house to hunt in Monroe and I bring my firearms in her house--I am not transferring ownership to her, merely storing my guns in her house till I take them hunting or shooting, or whatever I want to to do with them . I guess if it comes to that I'll have to gift my stuff to certain family members and they can gift it back to me when I get back.
     

    Hitman

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    Basically, if you lose a firearm while hiking, then get lost or break a leg and rescue takes more than 24 hours, you've become a felon. But, if you fail to report a lost or stolen firearm, then this requirement no longer applies to you, because that would violate your Fifth Amendment rights to self incrimination.

    :doh:
     

    Peacemaker

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    These are pretty ingenious ways to make you a break a gun law eventually. Then when you do, you will no longer pass any further background checks. That is back door gun control. The devil is in the details it seems.


    The government wouldn't do that... C'mon man.. We can trust em.. Hell, the DHS buying huge sums of ammo has been explained away I'm sure folks will explain this too.....
     

    Peacemaker

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    Completely unacceptable! I agree with trout25red, this is a back door elimination of gun rights. The details of this bill need to be brought to light for all gun owners, and we need to make some phones ring off the hook in DC...

    C'mon man... There is nothing to worry about.... Ask Jack..
     

    Jack

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    C'mon man... There is nothing to worry about.... Ask Jack..

    It's not over yet. As I have been saying.........the AWB or the mag capacity ban will not pass (though I was wrong on the DiFi bill not making it out of committee) but the real threat all along has been Universal Background Checks. We still stand a good chance on losing this battle.

    You're right and as I've said before, I think this is a far more likely than an AWB or mag restriction ever was. I also think forced disclosure of certain prescriptions and diagnoses is more likely than an AWB or mag restriction.

    Off the scrotum please.

    http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/...-Senate-bill&p=1215648&viewfull=1#post1215648
     
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