S&W vs. Sig

[Redbone]

Someone tell me why I should shell out the extra $$$s for a Sig instead of just buying a Ruger or S&W 40 cal.

 

[charlie12]

Because you would get the best and it would last the rest of your life.

 

[SeventhSon]

Because you would get the best and it would last the rest of your life.

I cant really add more to that.

S&W are good guns but a SIG, especially an older one, is pretty close to being the perfect combat handgun.

 

[LSUh20fowler]

I just bought the S&W M&P .40. I like it a lot. Feels good in my hand and has good balance. I passed about 125 rds through it this week with no problems.

 

[dangermoney]

If you bought a recent-production Sig, you would indeed be getting no more pistol than a Ruger or S&W.

As noted, the all-German guns, circa early 90s and prior, are another thing entirely. I still kick myself for not keeping one of the "sharp hammer" P220s I had; especially the Black T one.

It is my understanding that Sig QC started going south when the bean counting Kimber management took over in 2005-2006. Before that, their stuff was considered GTG. What is your opinion on this?

 

[sigman722]

Shoot one and you will see the err of your statement. I have had ruger, star 45, glock model 21, sig pro loved it, spingfield armory xd 40 for the wife very nice but not like the p226. In a word WOW

 

[JBP55]

I like the P229.

 

[dangermoney]

I like the P229.

+1

 

[dangermoney]

It started going downhill LONG before then. When SigArms began subcontracting out certain parts production to US vendors, in the mid-90s, is when you can begin tracing the decline.

The Kimber crew has just accelerated the process. Those boneheads keep trying to make a Sig 1911, and they just keep missing the mark. Like my dad used to say... "You want a steak, go to a steak house." Sig does not have a track record of selling proper steak (1911s). Dunno how that translates into major issues with what they HAVE been making successfully for decades (service pistols)... but it has.

Sig-Sauer hasn't made a single action pistol of note since the P-75/P-210. Granted, that one is a jewel... in the European style-tradition. Key words there being "European style/tradition".

In case you missed it, Kimber 1911s have been getting less than sterling reviews the past few years. I'm not talking about hand-fitted LAPD guns, etc. I'm talking about the bread'n'butter 1911s the company makes a myriad of and sells to folks like us. The reason for this, IMO, is that the firm has gotten too big, too fast. My God, look at the product line; some 20+ different offerings, yes?

This isn't S&W, or even Sig-Neuhausen we're talking about here. A lot of their frames are made by somebody else; some slides, too, I'm told. I really don't know. What I DO know is what I read. And there are a lot of unhappy Kimber 1911 owners on the forums. Lots of unhappy Sig owners, too, for that matter.

No doubt I'll now be thrashed by die-hard Sig and/or Kimber accolytes. Pile on, boys...

Thanks for your insight. I agree that the best Sig pistols were the ones made in Germany during the 80's and early 90's. However, my P229 hasn't given me any problems (yet) and reliably eats just about anything that I feed it. I guess that I must have gotten lucky but it is just a plane jane P229 9mm DA/SA gun.

Btw, I promise that I won't thrash you although I'm not really a die-hard Sig acolyte. I like Glocks just fine too.

 

[TxShooter]

My long-in-the-tooth friend makes a good point. The all-German SIGs are great guns; the later ones made with a mix of German and US parts are a mixed bag. Supposedly the early runs of stainless slides were made under contract by Ruger's Pine Tree Casting operation. I don't know about the current ones.

I have a circa '97 P220 .45 and an '01 P226 .357. If you're in the market for a SIG, I'd recommend one of their refurbished older ones. They're easy to spot...they didn't change to the stippled grips until the mid '90s, and the new grips won't fit the older frames. Just look for a P220 or P226 with checkered grips. The P228 had the stippled panels since it was introduced in '88-'89 or so, but they got kinda scarce by the late '90s and any you find will be all-German.

SIG as a company lost their way several years back, starting with that f'ugly 1911-that-doesn't-really-look-like-a-1911 (originally made with Caspian frames) and then making the flashlight rail mandatory. It got worse with sillyassed competition models and now these multicolored monstrosities that look like something Huggy Bear ordered for pistolwhipping his 'hos.

 

[SeventhSon]

I recently acquired a 1993 German SIG P220 for my daughter. Very nice. I'm a fan of the older SIG's. The newer ones are OK, but the older ones were built to last.

 

[Redbone]

BTW... any particular reason for the .40 caliber? You're old enough to be a ".45 guy"...

Look here, smartazz, you're only 2 years younger......... Maybe a sling shot would better for US. Actually I was a fan of the 10MM/.40 long before they existed in auto form. After reading up on the .41 mag I decided it was the gun for me. The bullet size controversy has been beat to death. I will only say the .40 is right for me.

I have a .40 Baby Eagle but I want a .40 I can put a laser on. It's going to be purchased new so that rules out some of the info you guys have given. That being the case it appears that I have no reason to buy a high end gun. If everything from S&W to Sig will function about the same the deciding factors will be aesthetics, features, and ergonomics.

 

[SeventhSon]

If everything from S&W to Sig will function about the same the deciding factors will be aesthetics, features, and ergonomics.

Just remember though, not all S&W's are created equal.

Sigma comes to mind.

Seriously though, any reason you have not thought about Glock or Springfield XD's?

 

[Bayoupiper]

I've been carrying the same Sig for 13 years now with zero problems other than the finish wearing off.



.

 

[Redbone]

Just remember though, not all S&W's are created equal.

Sigma comes to mind.

Seriously though, any reason you have not thought about Glock or Springfield XD's?

Both are in the running .... sigma is not. I like the XDs

 

[nickatnite]

I just bought the S&W M&P .40. I like it a lot. Feels good in my hand and has good balance. I passed about 125 rds through it this week with no problems.

Get back with us when you have shot 12,500 rds thru it...

 

[ram03reg]

i dont like the S&W sigmas but i bought a S&W M&P .40 cal compact and love it. Sigs seem to be nice guns too but i have only shot one..

I was in between a used SIG and my new S&W M&P i just like the feel of the M&P and I couldnt be happier

 

[slinkyonrampage]

I love my P6, but there are many other guns on my list that I will be getting before I grab up another Sig. On another note though, the p226 is one of my favorite guns of all time.

 

[dangermoney]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the DESIGN.

Its the EXECUTION (i.e., parts made to a cheaper standard to improve profit margins) that is the villain here.

When State Police bought all those Sigs in 1996, about half of the P220s suffered a failure of the hammer rebound spring; the whole lot had to go back to Sig. The P228s purred right along with no issues.

EBRSO had to send their entire lot of new P226Rs back. And that was just a couple of years ago.

On the other hand, when ATAP was here, that program featured P228s for almost ten years. Those pistols got used HARD; some had well over 70K rounds through them and were still working. Viva 'la difference between all-German pieces/parts, and a bastard hybrid.

If your P229 is working well, don't worry. As has been noted, most new Sigs run just fine; especially for the guy who doesn't shoot it much.

What's happening here is the typical American approach to business, I think; cut corners where you can to keep those stockholders happy.

The Germans, OTOH, still take pride in their product and have the attitude of... "You vant high quality? You VILL pay for it!"

That's one aspect of Teutonic arrogance that I must agree with...

I like the P229 design - it works for me. The gun that I have is probably an early 2000's model although I haven't dated it. I've put ~4,000 rounds through it so far with no issues. I'd like to get a P228 at some point but the good ones are getting harder to come by. Maybe I'll just get a Glock 19 instead.

 

[Dave328]

Because you would get the second best [cough,cough] Hk FTW [cough] and it would last the rest of your life.

There, now it's fixed!