The great "High Brass vs. Low Brass" question

[BSGA]

There is a lot of misconception about shotgun shells. As has been stated here, the length of the brass has nothing to do with it. Another little known fact is that when comparing "magnum" loads to "high brass", the magnum actually has a lower velocity. I'm talking about lead here not steel. In shotshells magnum loads have a heavier shot payload, not more velocity.

That's absolutely correct. The old lead duck loads of days past were heavier payloads with a slower velocity. My personal opinion is that they were not as effective as the lighter loads, but that's for another discussion. They did however take very very many waterfowl over the years, so one would have a hard time arguing against them.

 

[BSGA]

How many balls of a given size equals one pound of lead.

IOW, twelve .72 caliber (the bore diameter of 12 gauge) pure lead balss weigh one pound.

This goes down to 32 gauge.

.410 of course has always been the actual bore diameter.

That's correct. Now your tellin your age for sure LSP!!! Lots of folks, especially the younguns, don't know that!

 

[highstandard40]

The low brass shells sometimes killed better than the high brass because they had lower chamber pressure and thus deformed less of the BBs as they accelerated towards the muzzle. Rounder BBs fly straighter so the patterns are denser. Shotguns kill by multiple hits, not inividual pellet speed.

I used to have fun with this. Years ago I loaded shells for my BIL to squirrel hunt with. He was very vocal about how I should add extra powder to his shells cause he hunted in tall trees. I told him I did but actually loaded "low brass" loads in his 'High brass" shells. He used to brag about how well they killed squirrels.....better than them Super X shells he'd say. I never told him any different.

 

[highstandard40]

As far as the .410, 67 gauge is correct. A .410" lead ball weighs 104 gr....7000 gr to the pound......7000 divided by 104 = 67.3

 

[scooterj]

Don't forget about the barrel length myth. Length of barrel has nothing to do with velocity or pattern. Modern powders create all their pressure in the first 12 to 18 inches and the choke determines pattern. In the days of black powder longer barrels were needed because of the slow burn rate of the powder.
BTW...got my Benjamin pellet gun from Gibsons for $45.00 and my first shotgun from TG&Y for about the same price.

 

[Richard in LA]

That's correct. Now your tellin your age for sure LSP!!! Lots of folks, especially the younguns, don't know that!

I knew it. Heck, I'm almost half his age, and knew the 67 gauge bit as well

 

[BSGA]

Don't forget about the barrel length myth. Length of barrel has nothing to do with velocity or pattern. Modern powders create all their pressure in the first 12 to 18 inches and the choke determines pattern. In the days of black powder longer barrels were needed because of the slow burn rate of the powder.

Mostly true. Black powder, while a low explosive, actually deflagrates. IOW, the biggest bang comes from the initial ignition, then coninutes to burn down the barrel. Modern powders, (actually progressive propellants) can actually burn faster all the way down the barrel and therefore enhance velocity. Mostly the longer barrel in shotguns of BP days where for pattern control, i.e. a tighter pattern leaving the barrel made for a denser payload downrange. When propellants debuted, they took advantage of the longer barrel length and eventually made for some very fast lead loads as compared to the old BP loads. Modern lead loads can still take advantage of longer barrels, by using a slow burning propellant, but the applications are limited nowdays as a result of steel shot mandates. Steel on the other hand uses entirely different powders due to safety concerns (pressures and shot bridging). Steel is very unforgiving, unlike lead shot, so safety is a prime concern. But you are correct as far as steel shot loads, after about 18"'s, every additional inch of barrel is nearly useless for the most part. BTW, due to the nature of progressive propellants, and their ability to increase pressure after the payload leaves the chamber, that is why modern shell cartridge boxes carried that warning that confused many folks,,,"Do not use in twist, or damascus steel barrels." I can still remember as a kid, sitting in a duck blind with an old timer that shot a beat up L.C. Smith with damascus barrels. When he couldn't get paper BP shells anymore, he hung it up. Damn shame, cuz he was hell on wheels with that old piece!!!

 

[jimdana1942]

I have shot some what I thought were low powered dove loads in an older Win. 97 but those shells seemed to have alot of punch.

 

[4sooth]

Gibsons

Ahhh--Gibsons.Went there once to buy some shotshells and came out with a new Mod 60 S&W---for $99!

This was during the time when a new Smith in stainless steel was impossible to find at any price.But there they were----Model 60 for $99 and Model 66 for $129!Obvious missprice.

While I was filling out the paperwork a fellow came in--saw the prices--asked the clerk in the prices were correct.The clerk assured him they were so he bought all they had--8 Model nineteens and two Model sixties---for cash!

I was always broke when I ran across a deal.

 

[charlie12]

Ahhh--Gibsons.Went there once to buy some shotshells and came out with a new Mod 60 S&W---for $99!

This was during the time when a new Smith in stainless steel was impossible to find at any price.But there they were----Model 60 for $99 and Model 66 for $129!Obvious missprice.

While I was filling out the paperwork a fellow came in--saw the prices--asked the clerk in the prices were correct.The clerk assured him they were so he bought all they had--8 Model nineteens and two Model sixties---for cash!

I was always broke when I ran across a deal.

That was a good one, can you see them now if you wanted to buy that many guns at one time. They would go crazy.

 

[SigArmed1]

Man, talk about bringing back some great memories. I remember as a kid riding with my Dad to the Gibsons on Florida Blvd. and then next door to the sporting goods section of Wilsons. Those were good times! On the way home we would pass the outdoor drive in movie theater that is now BRCC. Once I remember being told not to look up because a "dirty" movie was playing! (Of course I looked ) Things sure have changed haven't they?

 

[charlie12]

Man, talk about bringing back some great memories. I remember as a kid riding with my Dad to the Gibsons on Florida Blvd. and then next door to the sporting goods section of Wilsons. Those were good times! On the way home we would pass the outdoor drive in movie theater that is now BRCC. Once I remember being told not to look up because a "dirty" movie was playing! (Of course I looked ) Things sure have changed haven't they?

And you didn't have to worry about getting shot at. Man I loved those drive in movies. Get that pic to burn to keep the bug out of the car.

 

[rrussotwo]

As far as the .410, 67 gauge is correct. A .410" lead ball weighs 104 gr....7000 gr to the pound......7000 divided by 104 = 67.3

I'm assuming that is 104 grains and not 104 grams?