What brand is a mixed matched AR?

[DAVE_M]

What's even more strange I've seen are Boutique manufacturers that use other components. A buddy of mine just bought a premium priced AR-15, brand new, "manufactured" by Fostech. Came with a Fostech Binary Trigger pre-installed, now I didn't inspect most of the components of the gun but I handled it briefly and saw that the handguard was a Midwest Industries handguard..... I wonder how many other components were other brands... It was sold as a brand new Fostech Rifle from a retailer, Not saying anything is shady about that or anything, Midwest is a reputable brand, It was just a little perplexing and this thread reminded me of it.

It’s not completely uncommon for manufacturers to use components from other companies, but it’s worth noting for sure. Fostech manufactures a few products, but I doubt they manufacture every component and I am skeptical of companies that are not transparent about it.

Agreed. Was approached by a local "manufacturer" to engrave their lowers with custom markings. I'm not sure what was more humorous that he wanted 77% off my usual prices, or that when I went to see his "custom" guns for sale they were literally manufactured guns with different rails, and his markings. I mean it was like Aero or some other low end stuff with a aftermarket rail, some Cerakote, and his name on the receiver, and he was charging north of $2,200 for them and the uninformed were buying them like hot cakes.

If it’s who I’m thinking of, I’ve been approached by them already. I politely declined to entertain anything they had to offer. Blame the 2008 era of pop up shop AR *builders* coming out of the woodwork. There are two individuals in the area that I know of making their own gun show specials and I wouldn’t touch either. I’m not surprised by your encounter with them.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

@DAVE_M

Might be the same. I am not one to bash a small business just looking for a deal, or selling to the uninformed. I'm glad the guy opened his own shop, and is local, adding monies to the state, and trying to sell a product. Hence the anon reference.

We have customers call us often just looking for advice on quality manufacturers, or just low cost point "hobby gun" manufacturers. We give unbiased advice to them and hope they make a good choice. But the garage workshop "manufacturer" (i.e. assemblers) are a different animal.

I asked one about his headspace procedure when he was assembling a barrel and bolt from different manufacturers prior to sale, he looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. There is a difference between my factory armorer certifications, and his YouTube certifications.

 

[DAVE_M]

@DAVE_M

Might be the same. I am not one to bash a small business just looking for a deal, or selling to the uninformed. I'm glad the guy opened his own shop, and is local, adding monies to the state, and trying to sell a product. Hence the anon reference.

We have customers call us often just looking for advice on quality manufacturers, or just low cost point "hobby gun" manufacturers. We give unbiased advice to them and hope they make a good choice. But the garage workshop "manufacturer" (i.e. assemblers) are a different animal.

I asked one about his headspace procedure when he was assembling a barrel and bolt from different manufacturers prior to sale, he looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. There is a difference between my factory armorer certifications, and his YouTube certifications.

I don’t want to see a small business fail, but I also don’t want to see people being conned into buying trash. There are all too many businesses obtaining a FFL and slapping together outsourced parts, then putting their logo on it, and expecting to sell it for double the cost of a quality rifle from a reputable manufacturer.

When someone is about to drop $1000 or more into a rifle, I hope it’s with a business that will be around for a while for when things go wrong. These assembly shops rebranding junk won’t be around forever and I’d be highly surprised if they even assembled the rifle correctly in the first place.

I have a hefty chunk of change invested into proprietary AR tools and I would expect any business that assembled rifles to have ten times the investment in tools that I have.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

I'd be more surprised if they even had an 07 instead of the 01 hanging on the wall.

 

[kingfhb]

Technically, the lower is the "Firearm"... so get a Daniel Defense Lower and cheap chinese everything else and BANG... $2500 Daniel Defense!!! hahahaha

 

[DAVE_M]

I'd be more surprised if they even had an 07 instead of the 01 hanging on the wall.

The two that I’m thinking of claim to have 07’s. Both have shops now. It just blows my mind that they call these guns *custom* and they don’t manufacture a single part.

 

[thperez1972]

I don’t want to see a small business fail, but I also don’t want to see people being conned into buying trash. There are all too many businesses obtaining a FFL and slapping together outsourced parts, then putting their logo on it, and expecting to sell it for double the cost of a quality rifle from a reputable manufacturer.

When someone is about to drop $1000 or more into a rifle, I hope it’s with a business that will be around for a while for when things go wrong. These assembly shops rebranding junk won’t be around forever and I’d be highly surprised if they even assembled the rifle correctly in the first place.

I have a hefty chunk of change invested into proprietary AR tools and I would expect any business that assembled rifles to have ten times the investment in tools that I have.

But are you an ASE certified mechanic?

 

[DAVE_M]

But are you an ASE certified mechanic?

 

[WhereIsIt?]

This is a one big reason as to why I haven't bought an AR yet. I just don't have the time to research everything AR right now and honestly I personally don't have a need for one.

 

[DAVE_M]

This is a one big reason as to why I haven't bought an AR yet. I just don't have the time to research everything AR right now and honestly I personally don't have a need for one.

Save your money. Even the best are having QC slips with how many sales have been happening.

There are certain things you would want, but there is no one brand to rule them all.

 

[honestlou]

What brand is a mixed matched AR? It's either no brand, or the brand of the person/company that assemble it. It certainly is not the brand of any of the parts. I have noticed lots of ads over time, here, and on Louisiana Sportsman, where people list "XYZ" rifle for sale. And in the description it will say "XYZ upper with ABC this and that. Certainly that is not an XYZ rifle.

From the replies, it is apparent that some people are sensitive about the nature/reputation of their 'mutt'. I think there is no question that a knowledgeable and skilled person can assemble a fine rifle from assorted parts. Also no question that people can put together some crap, regardless of the quality of the parts. But regardless of the quality, durability, accuracy, etc., it's still a mutt.

If I put together a car using parts from Ford, GM, etc., it might be a hell of a hotrod, but it surely is not a Ford or Chevy.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Save your money. Even the best are having QC slips with how many sales have been happening.

There are certain things you would want, but there is no one brand to rule them all.

I'm not a BCM fanboy at all, but I do respect their serious commitment to QA/QC on vital tolerance assembly parts. They have a significant time consuming process for every vital tolerance part of EVERY rifle that leaves the factory. There was a video of it a few years back about their processes. Pretty impressive. I can prob guess that Colt doesnt do that one every single rifle, its batch checked.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

The two that I’m thinking of claim to have 07’s. Both have shops now. It just blows my mind that they call these guns *custom* and they don’t manufacture a single part.

Correct, the moment I see the word "custom" in an ad I scroll past. Its terrifying what some people will do to a gun then sell it. I'd never buy a gun some YouTube mechanic modified. I had a customer bring me a rifle that was ND'ing. I diagnosed it to be the "trigger job" a YouTube mechanic (Who called himself "Frankengun") did to it. Apparently the YouTube mechanic didnt watch the video on heat treated surfaces, nor the difference between milspec heat treatment and civilian heat treatment. He was clueless that his sear work removed the heat treatment, and surface protection, and over time the crisp 90degree angle turned itself into a rolled 45degreee angle and the gun began to function on its own. Really dangerous.

Technically the vast majority of the big names dont make their own parts either. They make and assemble receivers. Barnes Precision makes all the internal parts for all the huge companies.

 

[kingfhb]

Buy WHATEVER you want... just don't skimp on the Barrel, BCG or Trigger (Well, and never buy ProMag for Magazines). Buy quality metals... doesn't have to be top of the line with how cookie cutter AR's are.

Don't listen to the "YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS OR DON'T BUY ANYTHING" crowd... chances are they watched some videos on what the Navy Seals use and now have to own it and would never deviate from it.

You're not putting THOUSANDS upon thousands of rounds through anything (especially not right now with the way prices are)... even the cheapest M&P 15 and Ruger 556 is running at or over $1000. You're not trekking though the hills and valleys of Afghanistan... or the Jungles of Africa loaded with a full pack and kit ANY TIME SOON to require a Mk18m4 fully outfitted.

I am NOT a promoter of any specific brand... though I will say BCM would be at the top of my list if I ever made one. Also, if you think some of the "Name Brand" companies don't use the EXACT same lowers/uppers and just BRAND them... you're fooling yourself.

Are there CRAP parts out there? YES INDEED! Would you know they were crap with most of them sitting in a safe or closet for the duration of their life with barely 1000 rounds through them? Nope. Aside from just wanting to show off and bragging to your buddies that you spent $3000 on a SAI GRY so you can pretend to be Tyrone Woods on the roof of the CIA outpost defending freedom... BUY WHAT YOU CAN... but remember... pay attention to the vital parts. I'm not even saying buy top of the line... just be aware of what metals are used, coatings, linings... as I mentioned above... Barrels, BCG, trigger, etc. Don't 3D print the vital parts! haha.

 

[DAVE_M]

I'm not a BCM fanboy at all, but I do respect their serious commitment to QA/QC on vital tolerance assembly parts. They have a significant time consuming process for every vital tolerance part of EVERY rifle that leaves the factory. There was a video of it a few years back about their processes. Pretty impressive. I can prob guess that Colt doesnt do that one every single rifle, its batch checked.

To my knowledge, the majority of larger manufacturers out there are doing batch QC. They simply can't check everything with the volume they create. However, companies like BCM and even SOLGW are going through each gun before it leaves the shop. It's been stated multiple times (along with video) that SOLGW test fires every gun.

Correct, the moment I see the word "custom" in an ad I scroll past. Its terrifying what some people will do to a gun then sell it. I'd never buy a gun some YouTube mechanic modified. I had a customer bring me a rifle that was ND'ing. I diagnosed it to be the "trigger job" a YouTube mechanic (Who called himself "Frankengun") did to it. Apparently the YouTube mechanic didnt watch the video on heat treated surfaces, nor the difference between milspec heat treatment and civilian heat treatment. He was clueless that his sear work removed the heat treatment, and surface protection, and over time the crisp 90degree angle turned itself into a rolled 45degreee angle and the gun began to function on its own. Really dangerous.

Technically the vast majority of the big names dont make their own parts either. They make and assemble receivers. Barnes Precision makes all the internal parts for all the huge companies.

A lot of companies out there make some of their own parts, but there are also many companies acting as an OEM, such as KNS Precision, Microbest, Azimuth, FN, ZEV, and Schmid Tool. There are many more, but it's besides the point. Transparency is key and a lot of these no name pop up shops lack transparency.

Buy WHATEVER you want... just don't skimp on the Barrel, BCG or Trigger (Well, and never buy ProMag for Magazines). Buy quality metals... doesn't have to be top of the line with how cookie cutter AR's are.

There is a lot more to it than a Barrel, BCG, and Trigger. What are quality metals?

Don't listen to the "YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS OR DON'T BUY ANYTHING" crowd... chances are they watched some videos on what the Navy Seals use and now have to own it and would never deviate from it.

Or possibly there ARE informed individuals out there who actually use their equipment and can offer quality advice. You could walk in Interstate Guns (as one example) and ask about anything without having one of the guys sell you some "cookie cutter AR made from quality metals," because I know for a fact some of those guys are educated on these things. You're not going to find low end guns in that shop.

You're not putting THOUSANDS upon thousands of rounds through anything (especially not right now with the way prices are)... even the cheapest M&P 15 and Ruger 556 is running at or over $1000. You're not trekking though the hills and valleys of Afghanistan... or the Jungles of Africa loaded with a full pack and kit ANY TIME SOON to require a Mk18m4 fully outfitted.

Yet I have friends currently shooting thousands of rounds at night with FA AR's... It's quite naive to believe you know everyone's use case.

I am NOT a promoter of any specific brand... though I will say BCM would be at the top of my list if I ever made one. Also, if you think some of the "Name Brand" companies don't use the EXACT same lowers/uppers and just BRAND them... you're fooling yourself.

ZEV manufactures upper and lower receivers, as well as some handguards, for SOLGW, Rainier, Triarc and Hodge. Aero Precision has been an OEM for several manufacturers. BCM has receivers cut specifically for them, including the Mk2. GGP makes their own receivers in house. KAC and LMT are making their own stuff. Even PSA makes all of their own receivers in house with DC Machine.

I guess I'm fooling myself.


There is a lot more that goes into the AR-15 than people think, but they ignore it due to there being other firearms that have even more going into them.

 

[DAVE_M]

 

[kingfhb]

On second thought... it's not even worth it. lol.