STOLEN GUNS and how to avoid them?

moe24 · Mar 27, 2017

I know this topic has been beat but it's 2017 and we still don't have a way to know if the gun were buying is stolen or not..

Ive done alot of business on here with alot of good people,I useally won't buy anything from someone who has less than 50posts..sometimes I get people who see my wtb/FS posts and instead of Pm"ing me,they call or text me..when i ask for there bayoushooter user name so I can look them up,they either hangup or stop texting..
Cool with me,that's the end of it..if you dont want to give me your user name then we won't be doing buisness.

The other thing is that NOONE(well most people)DO NOT want to do bill of sales,and I understand I mean I also have a problem with giving some stranger my ID and info..

Some people suggest calling the sheriff's office,we'll that can be a headache,i tried doing that a while back and the person who answered the phone caught an attitude and was like "you shouldn't even be buying guns from random people and if you want a gun then go buy one from a licenced dealer,..the lady refused to help and run a serial number for me and also told me
That me and the person I'm buying from go to a FFL and theyll handle it for us..ok whatever I just hung up..maybe that is the best advice is to let a ffl handle it BUT we live in a FREE STATE where citizens of this state are allowed to do private transactions and most ffls just do background checks,not look up SN#...

What options do we have in 2017?

I'm asking this because something crazy happened this morning long story ..

kingfhb · Mar 27, 2017

moe24 said:
I know this topic has been beat but it's 2017 and we still don't have a way to know if the gun were buying is stolen or not..

Ive done alot of business on here with alot of good people,I useally won't buy anything from someone who has less than 50posts..sometimes I get people who see my wtb/FS posts and instead of Pm"ing me,they call or text me..when i ask for there bayoushooter user name so I can look them up,they either hangup or stop texting..
Cool with me,that's the end of it..if you dont want to give me your user name then we won't be doing buisness.

The other thing is that NOONE(well most people)DO NOT want to do bill of sales,and I understand I mean I also have a problem with giving some stranger my ID and info..

Some people suggest calling the sheriff's office,we'll that can be a headache,i tried doing that a while back and the person who answered the phone caught an attitude and was like "you shouldn't even be buying guns from random people and if you want a gun then go buy one from a licenced dealer,..the lady refused to help and run a serial number for me and also told me
That me and the person I'm buying from go to a FFL and theyll handle it for us..ok whatever I just hung up..maybe that is the best advice is to let a ffl handle it BUT we live in a FREE STATE where citizens of this state are allowed to do private transactions and most ffls just do background checks,not look up SN#...

What options do we have in 2017?

I'm asking this because something crazy happened this morning long story ..

Is dealing with LEO before or after more difficult? -- Is what you need to ask yourself. You only stand to lose (if anything goes wrong.. ie. he's a felon, or under 21, in short... not legally able to possess a firearm) by giving in to someone not wanting to do a bill of sale or by not wanting to do a bill of sale yourself. It's only purpose is to protect you. If the quick sale is more important to you... go for it (at your own risk).

Now, if you acquired the firearm WITHOUT a bill of sale initially and are selling it in the same manor, there's no paper trail in the first place. However, you should still have concern if the buyer is legally able to possess the firearm.

It sounds like you're dealing with some pretty shady people (no offense)... definitely not the same supporters of "If you have nothing to hide and are obtaining the firearm legally, what are you afraid of?"... these are the same people that don't fill out the SSN on the 4473... or think that by doing a background check in Louisiana "the government" knows what you're buying... In fact, NOT putting your SSN could actually DELAY your response... all it takes is someone with a similar name that is a dirtbag... or if you have a military clearance... or TWIC card... or anything that would cause the investigator to need elevated privileges to view your record. The SSN assists with that. If you do get delayed often... you can call the ATF and get a UID (Unique Identification Number) that identifies you directly.

By filling out a 4473 in the state of Louisiana and having the background check done... you are not providing ANY information on the firearm you're purchasing other than if it is a pistol, rifle or other (or even if you're actually purchasing one for that matter... as far as the ATF is concerned... you're just having a background check run). Can they trace the firearm back to the purchase? Of course... so how is leaving your SSN off helping? Sometimes I just don't get it.

krotsman · Mar 27, 2017

moe24 said:
I'm asking this because something crazy happened this morning long story ..

You can't leave us hanging.... Give us the Reader's Digest version!

BigP623 · Mar 27, 2017

I ALWAYS require a bill of sale on private purchases, weather I know you or not. Its not required in this state, but I like to have proof, for my own records, that if something was to happen down the line I can prove I didn't posses that weapon.

Also a rule I follow is if it doesn't feel right, or is too good to be true, it usually is. Bail, and say you need some time to think it over etc.

krotsman · Mar 27, 2017

moe24 said:
The other thing is that NOONE(well most people)DO NOT want to do bill of sales,and I understand I mean I also have a problem with giving some stranger my ID and info..

That must be a NOLA thing. I have bought and sold lots of guns from Slidell to Lafayette and only 1 guy didn't want a BoS.

Bigchillin83 · Mar 27, 2017

as far as stolen guns, usually you can get a pic of the serial number or just ask them for it, I had a buddy I used to use at jims that would call them in for me and check on them. I also had a number for a direct look up, I no longer have it, but they didn't care who you were or what you were doing, you simply said the make, model, serial number and they told you what was the state it was sold in and if it was reported stolen or used in a crime... im with you, I know the ffl fellas gotta make there $15-$20 for a transfer but that's kinda the point of buying a used gun.. it doesn't have to be done, in fact in the past I have passed on a few guns because of the requirement of transferring at an ffl..... As of now, I don't require a bill of sale for any of my items,(cause I would have 3 file cabinets full of buy/sell/trades by now lol) but if I do business with somebody and they ask for it, its no issue for me ill let them see my DL and CHP. With todays tech anybody can look anything up on you, if anybody you know uses social media and ever post your name or info or pic, your in the system lol. If they wanna pay $5 for those online look up sights they can find tickets, arrest, previous address/phone numbers and your whole families history/info. I usually am like you, I like to see some feed back, or talk to them for a little bit and just make sure they arnt crazy, also watch there body attitude ect when meeting, meet in a good place, maybe with cameras, and deff don't turn your back or set yourself up for failure, giving a guy "dressed as a thug" your glock to check out and hope it turns out well

Ritten · Mar 27, 2017

It's pretty simple. You either mitigate the risk yourself and get to know the person you're buying/selling with or run the transaction through an FFL. I have yet to find a deal that was so good that I would neglect the risk of buying a stolen firearm.

If you're buying and selling that much why not just get an FFL and do the NCIS checks yourself?

kingfhb · Mar 27, 2017

Ritten said:
It's pretty simple. You either mitigate the risk yourself and get to know the person you're buying/selling with or run the transaction through an FFL. I have yet to find a deal that was so good that I would neglect the risk of buying a stolen firearm.

If you're buying and selling that much why not just get an FFL and do the NCIS checks yourself?

TECHNICALLY, if he's buying and selling that much (for a profit) he's running an illegal Firearms business in the eyes of the ATF.

John_ · Mar 27, 2017

BigP623 said:
I ALWAYS require a bill of sale on private purchases, weather I know you or not. Its not required in this state, but I like to have proof, for my own records, that if something was to happen down the line I can prove I didn't posses that weapon.

Also a rule I follow is if it doesn't feel right, or is too good to be true, it usually is. Bail, and say you need some time to think it over etc.

I do a simple BOS every time for firearms or lower receivers, buy or sell. No one that I have done business with here has balked at a simple BOS. Not a single individual, actually no one in 35 years that I can recall. It gives a buyer proof they bought x, and from who. As a seller, it gives me a record of who purchased x from me. Now in 35 years of buying and selling firearms, I have yet to need such proof, or had an issue or claim. To me it's being a responsible firearm owner in our society. To just hand over a handgun for cash to anyone, no documentation is no different than a common thug selling/trading a hot gun on the street. Think Alton Sterling of BR. Or any of a million in the USA.

And today its so easy to write a simple BOS on any sheet of paper, even a scrap. Then take a pic with your smartphone. There is an app called Camscanner that I use. It will auto crop the image, save it, allow you to name it, then transfer it as a JPEG or PDF file. Transfer via hard wired or wifi or my email account. Or print it. Doesn't get any easier let me tell you, and its free.
I used to go the the local library to copy any document, not any more. You guys will thank me for this one if you don't already use Camscanner.

Even if you don't have a smartphone you can just take a pic of your document and save and transfer as a JPEG file with a basic flip phone. If ur phone takes photos, ur in business. Simple but it works. The crop feature of CS is awesome, both auto crop or manual. And the file conversion right in ur hand.

Bigchillin83 · Mar 27, 2017

If you have an ffl, I could be wrong but you are only allowed so many personal ncis transfers, the system deff isn't designed or allowed so you can call in your on ncis checks in for convenience....

John_ · Mar 27, 2017

kingfhb said:
TECHNICALLY, if he's buying and selling that much (for a profit) he's running an illegal Firearms business in the eyes of the ATF.

Absolutely. Its a fine line there. I am a former FFL owner. And it's BATFE these days. Federal law firearms violations/convictions bring 10 years in a federal prison, and/or a $10,000 fine. BAM. You don't hear of it occurring much with small time deals, but when the BATFE come after you, you better be righteous. Ditto Class III violations.

krotsman · Mar 27, 2017

Ritten said:
If you're buying and selling that much why not just get an FFL and do the NCIS checks yourself?

Mark Harmon passed the gun checks onto NICS :mamoru:

Jiggy205 · Mar 27, 2017

Hotgunz.com It's the stolen gun database. It's a mobile site all you have to do is put the serial numbers in

John_ · Mar 27, 2017

Jiggy205 said:
Hotgunz.com It's the stolen gun database. It's a mobile site all you have to do is put the serial numbers in

Thx, thats new for me. Will come in handy.

Robbie · Mar 27, 2017

I will reply with a long reply later.

WildBillKelso · Mar 27, 2017

I called and asked my local sheriff's office to run a serial number through NCIC and/or LLETS to see if a gun was reported stolen. They said they don't do it for private citizens. I was quite surprised that they would not want to do that in an effort to prevent a gun thief from trying to sell stolen goods.I

Also, to my knowledge based on my research in trying to get an NCIC check, FFLs also do not have a resource to see if used guns are stolen.

RedStickChick · Mar 27, 2017

WildBillKelso said:
I called and asked my local sheriff's office to run a serial number through NCIC and/or LLETS to see if a gun was reported stolen. They said they don't do it for private citizens. I was quite surprised that they would not want to do that in an effort to prevent a gun thief from trying to sell stolen goods.I

Also, to my knowledge based on my research in trying to get an NCIC check, FFLs also do not have a resource to see if used guns are stolen.

If they did this, you have to think about how many people would call daily to run NCIC checks.

Saintsfan6 · Mar 27, 2017

RedStickChick said:
If they did this, you have to think about how many people would call daily to run NCIC checks.

EXACTLY! Which is why we should have a resource to verify stolen firearm! Your local LE should be able to say "please call/visit this phone number/website for that information". Of all the stupid, useless, .gov programs we fund that don't accomplish ANYTHING, we can't have one that would actually take stolen firearms off the streets!? :mad:

RedStickChick · Mar 27, 2017

Saintsfan6 said:
EXACTLY! Which is why we should have a resource to verify stolen firearm! Your local LE should be able to say "please call/visit this phone number/website for that information". Of all the stupid, useless, .gov programs we fund that don't accomplish ANYTHING, we can't have one that would actually take stolen firearms off the streets!?

Sounds like a great idea for a company. Why don't you go and start one that does all of the above, and in a fast and efficient manner while you're at it.

Saintsfan6 · Mar 27, 2017

RedStickChick said:
Sounds like a great idea for a company. Why don't you go and start one that does all of the above, and in a fast and efficient manner while you're at it.

I don't know if the public has access to that database. I would think if they did, it would have been done already.

STOLEN GUNS and how to avoid them?

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