Lets discuss AR-15 gas block installation techniques

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    thperez1972

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    If they knew as much as they like to pretend to they would not be blowing their horns and knocking everyone's opinion as junk if it is not the same as their opinion . If you do not recognize an AR as a loose tolerance piece of machinery you are not very educated on ARs . No one is suggesting it is not best to use the right tools , one member who was criticized for describing an alternate way to dimple a barrel offered to loan his proper tool . I never said anything about not building an AR or anything else half a&& I said you don't have to be a pompas sexual intellectual to do it right .

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    One member did suggest it's alright to not use the right tool when he talked about always using an alternate method even though he had the right tool available. He backed up his position by claiming to have 40 years of gunsmithing experience. He's an experienced gunsmith suggesting a sloppy, imprecise method that takes longer and involves more effort than using the right tool even when he has the right tool. Would you describe that as good advice?
     

    Magdump

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    One member did suggest it's alright to not use the right tool when he talked about always using an alternate method even though he had the right tool available. He backed up his position by claiming to have 40 years of gunsmithing experience. He's an experienced gunsmith suggesting a sloppy, imprecise method that takes longer and involves more effort than using the right tool even when he has the right tool. Would you describe that as good advice?
    Perez, people just might buy crap like this if you didn’t add and subtract so much of what I actually say. You’re just asking too much bro. You’re too obvious. Pick and choose all you like, my post is still there and it don’t say what you say. Your mistake is thinking anybody really cares. The thread would be just fine without all the BS getting shoveled in over the mention of an option that works just effing fine if you can’t do any better. You have to turn it into a big production to bring attention to yourself and try to bash someone else. Kinda takes away from any worthwhile content at the least. Why don’t you share your gunsmithing experiences with us instead of trying to call out anything you don’t agree with. Like I said, you take this way too seriously. If you think assembling an AR15 is gunsmithing, then you’ll never be one.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    One member did suggest it's alright to not use the right tool when he talked about always using an alternate method even though he had the right tool available. He backed up his position by claiming to have 40 years of gunsmithing experience. He's an experienced gunsmith suggesting a sloppy, imprecise method that takes longer and involves more effort than using the right tool even when he has the right tool. Would you describe that as good advice?
    There isn't a right tool . There is a designated tool that makes the job easier and leaves less room for screw up by people who are not mechanically inclined enough to do the job without it . There is nothing sloppy nor imprecise about his alternative method and if done correctly it is just as good as what someone who is not mechanically inclined can do with the designated tool. I guess if I was away from home and my flat starter punch and brass punches and had to use a long picture frame nail to get a pin started and tapped it in with a quarter inch extension (of course protecting the lower with duct tape ) I would be doing sloppy work ? How would a pin using the appropriate tools be installed better ? Special designed tools are great but just because someone has to have them to do Quality work doesn't mean someone mechanically inclined enough to not use them isn't doing quality work .

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    DAVE_M

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    So long as you drill the hole 180 degrees from the gas port, it does not matter how you do it, so long as you ensure it is properly aligned. Misaligned gas blocks can cause unwanted issues.

    Yes, most gas blocks has a larger diameter port than the barrel's gas port, but that does not mean it is acceptable to misalign the dimple. The port is larger to accommodate multiple barrel gas port sizes, which should be appropriately sized from the start. However, a misaligned dimple will likely cause the gun to short stroke when an adjustable gas block or gas block designed to restrict flow is used. This is due to the gas block having a reduced port size.

    I really don't care what you people do or if you think I'm pretending to be an expert. I'm relaying information I've learned from my own mistakes and from those who are actual armorers. Take it for what you will. I'm tired of arguing with people who are closed minded.

    From Trajectory Arms:

    Let me start this off with a statement: Yes, you should dimple your barrel before installing your gas block. I'm happy to see more barrel manufacturers doing this by default. That being said, occasionally the gas port is not drilled perfectly in line with the index pin on the barrel extension. In cases like this, dimpling will keep the gas block aligned with the port but may cause the block to contact the rail or cause alignment issues with the gas tube and gas key interface.

    If on a dimpled barrel you notice your gas block is severely misaligned with the rail and that you are struggling to get the gas tube and key to align in the upper (see my video a while back on that), its possible the either the dimple is misaligned from a sloppy jig, or even worse, the gas port is not aligned with the gun.
    We have fixed a couple of these but they are very situation dependent.

    The one pictured had a pistol length gas (.300BLK). The block was extremely close to the rail and could have possibly rubbed while firing. It was also impossible to get the gas tube to align right and would have caused premature wear.

    I re-dimpled the barrel to allow the block to be straight with the rest of the gun, but not so far as to block the gas port. It was verified via bore camera and test firing. A second dimple was added to ensure that it couldn't slip back into the first dimple.

    www.trajectoryarms.com

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    thperez1972

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    Can you at least see how, from an engineering point of view, the jig is more precise?

    Yeah Perez, I can see how it’s more precise.

    There isn't a right tool . There is a designated tool that makes the job easier and leaves less room for screw up by people who are not mechanically inclined enough to do the job without it . There is nothing sloppy nor imprecise about his alternative method and if done correctly it is just as good as what someone who is not mechanically inclined can do with the designated tool.

    Even he knows the jig is more precise. But it appears you believe a GB with free hand drilling and a jig with measured drilling are both equivalent techniques.

    I guess if I was away from home and my flat starter punch and brass punches and had to use a long picture frame nail to get a pin started and tapped it in with a quarter inch extension (of course protecting the lower with duct tape ) I would be doing sloppy work ? How would a pin using the appropriate tools be installed better ? Special designed tools are great but just because someone has to have them to do Quality work doesn't mean someone mechanically inclined enough to not use them isn't doing quality work .

    If you're away from your tools, use what you have. But by his admission, he chooses to use the GB despite having the right tool there.
     

    thperez1972

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    Perez, people just might buy crap like this if you didn’t add and subtract so much of what I actually say. You’re just asking too much bro. You’re too obvious. Pick and choose all you like, my post is still there and it don’t say what you say. Your mistake is thinking anybody really cares. The thread would be just fine without all the BS getting shoveled in over the mention of an option that works just effing fine if you can’t do any better. You have to turn it into a big production to bring attention to yourself and try to bash someone else. Kinda takes away from any worthwhile content at the least. Why don’t you share your gunsmithing experiences with us instead of trying to call out anything you don’t agree with. Like I said, you take this way too seriously. If you think assembling an AR15 is gunsmithing, then you’ll never be one.

    I'm not bashing you. I'm pointing out your advice is bad.
     

    John_

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    No one is suggesting it is not best to use the right tools , one member who was criticized for describing an alternate way to dimple a barrel offered to loan his proper tool .

    Magdump never offered to loan his tool, his jig. Read the entire thread. Quote the comment where Magdump actually offered to loan his dimpling jig in this thread, I'll wait.

    You two deserve each other really. Bad advice and lies for cover up.
     

    MOTOR51

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    I still stand by my post in #27. Glad this didn’t the into one of those name calling, argument threads. Oh wait


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    ozarkpugs

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    Magdump never offered to loan his tool, his jig. Read the entire thread. Quote the comment where Magdump actually offered to loan his dimpling jig in this thread, I'll wait.

    You two deserve each other really. Bad advice and lies for cover up.
    #4 Anyway, I’ll dig up that dimple ring if you wanna use it or you could just use the block.

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    John_

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    I still stand by my post in #27. Glad this didn’t the into one of those name calling, argument threads. Oh wait


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    And I stand by my earlier reply to you. If you don't like discussion/dialog on an internet firearms forum, maybe you should try a Guns and Ammo magazine subscription to fulfill your needs. You might be happier that way.

    Sometimes discussion is spirited, to weed out fact from fiction, the BS. Now when the banter goes on, one on one for hours and hours (sometimes days), that is exclusively self serving imo.
     

    thperez1972

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    I still stand by my post in #27. Glad this didn’t the into one of those name calling, argument threads. Oh wait


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    Simple question. Is it good advice to suggest using a gas block as a rough guide to find the spot to free hand drill a dimple when one has a dimple jig?


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    Magdump

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    If your barrel has no dimple at all you might want to do that. Once you have the one closest to the port done go ahead and tighten it down without loc tite and drill a dimple for the front as well if it’ll make you feel better. Just make sure your block is set in the right spot. I air test mine. Then when you assemble everything the block should go back to the right spot and I’d just use the red. That’s been my method for too many builds to count. I have a dimpling jig but I rarely use it anymore. I just use the gas block as a jig by clamping the block on with the front screw at the sweet spot and drilling the rear. I’ve never had one come loose unless I wanted it to. Tapered pins are great for a FSB but way overkill for a low profile GB. Yes, they get hot but metal swells when it’s hot and everything gets tight. Even when you torch a red locked set screw it will offer resistance when you attempt to break it loose. Ive never seen one just back out on its own when I’ve used the red. I have seen a few on other guys’ builds that have broken loose, including 2 factory builds. One was a DPMS Oracle if I’m not mistaken and the other I truly don’t remember but I know the guy had recently bought it at Academy and thought he could just bring it right back. He got pissed when I told him that wasn’t gonna happen, lol. We fixed it that evening. I don’t think that one was ever tightened at the factory.
    Anyway, I’ll dig up that dimple ring if you wanna use it or you could just use the block. If I can I’ll meet up with you to finish our deal and bring it.

    Magdump never offered to loan his tool, his jig. Read the entire thread. Quote the comment where Magdump actually offered to loan his dimpling jig in this thread, I'll wait.

    You two deserve each other really. Bad advice and lies for cover up.
    Well there it is. Last paragraph of my first post. I think you may have just been reading someone else’s version of my posts here.
    Yeah, offer still stands John.
    I just wanna mention that none of what happened here will ever lend itself to anyone wanting to help those who ask.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    John_ It baffles me why you post questions on here when the only answers you accept are ones from keyboard commandos who use "experts" videos to show you how knowledgeable they are . Would it not save you and everyone a lot of time if you just googled " What does Dave_ M advise ? Or you could just private message him your question. Of course as you stated in an earlier s$/& post building a lower is a piece of cake for you so you will only need advice on uppers .

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    Magdump

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    Simple question. Is it good advice to suggest using a gas block as a rough guide to find the spot to free hand drill a dimple when one has a dimple jig?


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    More ad lib Perez? Kinda like you deciding I’m using a ‘much smaller bit’
    Rough guide?
    Free hand drill? That’s bad advice bro. Everyone knows you use a drill press. Where did free hand drill come from, oh wait... do you think nobody sees through that crap? And for the last time, for the record, for real, use the jig if you have it, but if you don’t, you can successfully dimple a barrel using the gas block for a guide.
    You guys ever ask yourself what AR fans did with themselves before hundreds of manufacturers started turning out parts and tools that didn’t exist? I wonder how we ever got anything right back then.
     

    thperez1972

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    More ad lib Perez? Kinda like you deciding I’m using a ‘much smaller bit’
    Rough guide?

    You use a bit that's small enough to be unsupported. So you're not even using the GB as a jig. So you're hoping the gas block is centered enough on the gas port and hoping the pilot hole for the dimple is centered on the hole in the gas block.
    I’ve never drilled out my threads because I don’t use a bit big enough.



    Free hand drill? That’s bad advice bro. Everyone knows you use a drill press. Where did free hand drill come from, oh wait... do you think nobody sees through that crap?

    Did I miss where you mentioned using a drill press? If you're using a drill press, at least that makes the gas block method is less bad.
    I have a dimpling jig but I rarely use it anymore. I just use the gas block as a jig by clamping the block on with the front screw at the sweet spot and drilling the rear.



    And for the last time, for the record, for real, use the jig if you have it, but if you don’t, you can successfully dimple a barrel using the gas block for a guide.
    You guys ever ask yourself what AR fans did with themselves before hundreds of manufacturers started turning out parts and tools that didn’t exist? I wonder how we ever got anything right back then.

    Yes, in the absence of the right tool specifically designed for the task, measuring the location of the hole with the gas block can work. That's never been my point of contention. The issue I have is someone suggesting using the gas block is the method preferred when there exists, and they have, an inexpensive tool that takes any human error out of the equation then throws out 40 years of build experience to back up their suggestion.
     

    Magdump

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    You use a bit that's small enough to be unsupported. So you're not even using the GB as a jig. So you're hoping the gas block is centered enough on the gas port and hoping the pilot hole for the dimple is centered on the hole in the gas block.






    Did I miss where you mentioned using a drill press? If you're using a drill press, at least that makes the gas block method is less bad.






    Yes, in the absence of the right tool specifically designed for the task, measuring the location of the hole with the gas block can work. That's never been my point of contention. The issue I have is someone suggesting using the gas block is the method preferred when there exists, and they have, an inexpensive tool that takes any human error out of the equation then throws out 40 years of build experience to back up their suggestion.
    Like I said, more ad lib.
    What were you doing 40 years ago? Oh wait..
     
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    Magdump

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    Of course it’s ad lib. If you intended that to be an insult, you may not be familiar with its definition.


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    Actually I was trying to be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you’re not just throwing offhand impromptu comments about what I’m saying, then you must be intentionally changing my statements around to make it look like I’m saying something completely different that fits your narrative. The problem with that, as I said, is my posts are there to compare to your very inaccurate rendition. Get it straight.

    I’m gonna add one last thing to this thread then bow out, and you guys can have as many last say posts as you need to feel right.
    I’m thinking at least 4 pages of this thread could have been filled with worthwhile posts (instead of a bunch of nonsense) if my very first post had just been taken at face value, where I stated what has worked for me, yet still offered the use of the tool in question.
    Maybe one day nobody will want to take the trouble to voice an opinion or offer any actual help to this community except for the few that berate those who do. Then you guys can have the place to yourselves.
     
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