Pit Bull story

[Hitman]

I hope anti-gunners don't start using the same argument about firearms and baseball bats.

Of course a pit bull can do EXTENSIVE damage to the fascia, musculature, and even skeletal structures of the humanoid physique, as well as to that of fellow canines (for you! ).

But seriously, just because it is capable, does not mean it should be destroyed any more than the .50 cal should be illegal in California but the .416 is fine.

You've mistaken my argument.

I'm not arguing that Pits are capable b/c of their physique.

They are more likely to do so because of their genetics.

 

[JWG223]

You've mistaken my argument.

I'm not arguing that Pits are capable b/c of their physique.

They are more likely to do so because of their genetics.

How do you support that, though? We can't draw anything from the "facts" except that Pit bulls are more likely to bite. We also know they are more likely to be bred and trained to do so. At what point is the statistic a product of the user and not the tool, so to speak?

 

[Taiaut]

I wish that all of you would have had the opportunity about 3 years ago to see the 9 year old girl in a L.C. area ER with half of her face nearly torn off by a pitt bull.
You would realize that the three pages of responses on this topic don't mean a damn thing.

 

[Hitman]

How do you support that, though? We can't draw anything from the "facts" except that Pit bulls are more likely to bite. We also know they are more likely to be bred and trained to do so. At what point is the statistic a product of the user and not the tool, so to speak?

Hmm...well put.

I would say the tool was created and then abused and is now suffering the consequences of those initial abusers.

I'm not sure how anyone could confidently purchase a BYB Pit. I mean your basically buying a genetic mutation(Mutt) of a dog with no telling how many different characteristics bred into it. They mix them with Rotts, Cane Corsos, Chows etc. I mean mixing all those aggressive breeds has led to what you see today. A BYB Pit Mixed MUTT with a short fuse, a small brain and the potential to eat a 3 year old if it accidentally steps on its tail.

So at which point do you admit/determine, that the tool has grown out of control?

Also I never said anything about destroying them.
I said I would be in favor for a state wide mandate to snip all unregistered Pits.

Proper Breeding can achieve some amazing results in a Dog Breed. It can also create a monster.

 

[Hattrick 22]

Y'all are missing the point. I'm sure they are sweet loving dogs. Until they snap. Does every pit snap? Of course not but enough of them do that it makes them all questionable.

Another point. Two pro pit guys say they were attacked by different breeds. I'll accept that any dog is capable of attacking but and here's a really big BUT... do either of you think you would be here at all if it had been a pit that attacked you? If you lived through it you would have had to have a lot of reconstructive surgery instead of a few stitches.

That is what worries me the most about them. Can they be good dogs? Yes but does every good dog have the potential to snap? Yes. The problem again is how much damage a weiner dog could do compared to a dog (byb pitbull/bull) breed for its short fuse and bite force/ablity to maul?

Case in point this one saved someones life. http://news.yahoo.com/video/oddnews...y-pulling-her-from-train-tracks-29258520.html

I don't fear my friends two pitbulls although i know i can not let my guard down either. The potentiol to kill or seriously injure somebody is there. I have seen the results of such injuries first hand and they are nothing to have a pissing match over if the breed is a good dog or not. The two i know are good dogs. Can i trust them to never possibly hurt someone? I can't and I am not looking to change anybodies mind on the matter seeing the results puts it in perspective.

Pitbulls are used in law enforcement and military also...

In the quote you posted in response I said the numbers were few and far between. If you could find over a hundred that are in service I would be surprised. Don't troll and not read the whole post...

 

[gunguy11]

I wish that all of you would have had the opportunity about 3 years ago to see the 9 year old girl in a L.C. area ER with half of her face nearly torn off by a pitt bull.
You would realize that the three pages of responses on this topic don't mean a damn thing.

And u can give you a testimonial from a close relative of mine where her child's face at 6 years old was torn and shredded by a lab. His nose, mouth, eye, left cheek required several reconstructive surgeries.

 

[Mjolnir]

Hmm...well put.

I would say the tool was created and then abused and is now suffering the consequences of those initial abusers.

I'm not sure how anyone could confidently purchase a BYB Pit. I mean your basically buying a genetic mutation(Mutt) of a dog with no telling how many different characteristics bred into it. They mix them with Rotts, Cane Corsos, Chows etc. I mean mixing all those aggressive breeds has led to what you see today. A BYB Pit Mixed MUTT with a short fuse, a small brain and the potential to eat a 3 year old if it accidentally steps on its tail.

So at which point do you admit/determine, that the tool has grown out of control?

Also I never said anything about destroying them.
I said I would be in favor for a state wide mandate to snip all unregistered Pits.

Proper Breeding can achieve some amazing results in a Dog Breed. It can also create a monster.

If it's mixed with all of the other breeds mentioned it isn't a Pit Bull.

No evidence of a "small brain" just a large structure for a very powerful "hinge" mechanism - zygomatic arch.

The Molosser breeds are much less likely to snap at you and Pit Bulldogs are better at their job when selectively linebred and inbred so outcrosses destroys the trait called 'gameness'.

 

[Mjolnir]

Some of what is said here makes sense. A pit attacked my cat, in my fenced in back yard. The pit forced itself through a gap in the two fence lines. It never once snapped at me, as I choked the life out of it. It didn't release my cat, until the life went out of it's eyes. The cat survived, but required over $500 in vet bills. The pit wasn't so fortunate. I threatened to sue the dog's owner for the vet bills, but never did.

I think they are dangerous animals. If your pit gets loose, and ends up on my property, I promise to return the remains. In general, I love animals, and plan to have a dog once either my wife, or I retire.

ALL Livestock Guardian Breeds (e.g., German Shepherds, Malinau, etc), ALL Terriers and most hounds would have done the same...

U made one GREAT point: It ignored U.

Personally, I'd NEVER encourage ANY of the "bulldog" breeds to be aggressive towards a human but that's me. And gamebred Pit Bulldogs are *NOT* human aggressive. Despite all of the irrational, panicky, unfounded fearmongering.

Just like those "high cap clips" and "ugly black rifles" I guess.

 

[Hitman]

1: If it's mixed with all of the other breeds mentioned it isn't a Pit Bull.

2: No evidence of a "small brain" just a large structure for a very powerful "hinge" mechanism - zygomatic arch.

1: Uh...Of course. The point is that Pit Mutts dominate the Pit Breed now. Hell I could pick up about 3 pups from 3 different litters tomorrow and only drive about 30 miles to do it. The stats are also owned by these BYB Pits. That's what were talking about here and that's what everyone assumes when you say Pit. No one assumes you mean a AKC Registered Pit Bull Terrier.

2: Small in matter of intelligence. They're not very smart dogs, and mainly b/c what we call Pits are Terrier Mutts.
Even the Official Bull Terrier Breed ranks near 50 on the intelligence scale. #1 Being the smartest(Border Collie)

 

[LA_Huntsman]

Government forced dog registration is the only answer...

 

[Mjolnir]

1: Uh...Of course. The point is that Pit Mutts dominate the Pit Breed now. Hell I could pick up about 3 pups from 3 different litters tomorrow and only drive about 30 miles to do it. The stats are also owned by these BYB Pits. That's what were talking about here and that's what everyone assumes when you say Pit. No one assumes you mean a AKC Registered Pit Bull Terrier.

2: Small in matter of intelligence. They're not very smart dogs, and mainly b/c what we call Pits are Terrier Mutts.
Even the Official Bull Terrier Breed ranks near 50 on the intelligence scale. #1 Being the smartest(Border Collie)

What you call a Pit Bulldog is NOT a Pit Bulldog. A Shepherd mixed with a Lab is NOT EITHER. An American Kennel Club dog is NOT a Pit Bulldog, either. That would be one of three or four breeds: American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier and Miniature Bull Terrier.

I can buy scatterbred pick a popular breed almost anywhere. I'd not purchase ANY but just because it's registered doesn't mean anything much outside of what some committee BELIEVES the breed should LOOK LIKE, primarily. No thanks. Look at the hyena-looking German Shepherds with hip dysplasia. The English Bulldog. Really? Really?! And the head of the Bull Terrier... Does it even have a scissors bite? I can tell you NO, it doesn't.

To Hell with the AKC, ruiner of good dogs. You're off here.

At one time you could be cocksure about the United Kennel Club. Not necessarily so today because they allow cross registered dogs from the AKC. Look to the ADBA (American Dog Breeders Association) for a bona fide Pit Bull, Pit Bull Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Pit Bulldog or "Bulldog".

The pinheads who push the "bully breed" stuff is sickening, overly square, heavy, short-legged, large dogs bred for LOOKS. Particularly grey coats, Huge heads and blue noses.

As far as stats are concerned I care not what Pit Bull crosses make up in dog bite stats. Google "dog breeds personality tests" and watch your theory crumble. The fighting dogs are the least apt to bite a human. It's said that gameness and human aggression are mutually exclusive. Don't know much about that but I do tend to agree.


Hmmm... How does one measure intellect? How many facets are there to intellect? Usually, the DESIRE TO INTERACT WITH HUMANS is called "intelligence". Let me tell you that Working Dogs (and gamebred dogs ARE Working Dogs) are not dumb. The dumb ones die. Period. Selective breeding, game testing, contests and such.

Do you know how many dog breeds we have? Even if I'd accept your claim of 50th for the English Bull Terrier - an extremely stubborn dog with high prey drive and energy - I don't think it would bother much with what would constitute "intelligence" testing. Same with, say, any if the working hounds. That said, one cannot take ANYTHING from the Border Collie - easy to train, very tractable (both I which add VALUE to the breed as we herd cattle and sheep more than we herd, say, feral hogs).

 

[Mjolnir]

Wiener dogs do indeed have a MASSIVE prey drive. They were bred to hunt. Try letting a smaller animal than the wiener dog around it (hamster, gerbil, guinea pig, etc. and see what happens). My wiener argument stands tall and proud.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/dachshund/



Like you said, Stats don't lie. Neither do accurately reported facts.

_________________________

Other than that, I agree with your post. You can't make a whore a house-wife, and you can't take a dog bred for aggression and make it docile and loving. However, not all Pits are bred and treated this way. I have met plenty. Maybe you have met docile bred wiener dogs, but the one's I know are vicious Freudian-inspired killing machines of all things smaller than them.

You are correct. Even though they are no longer working dogs they should be watched around small fur-bearing critters. Terriers should be watched as well. To claim otherwise is, well... makes me question the knowledge of the person who claims otherwise.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

no matter if i buy the most expensive hunting shotgun in the world or the cheapest saturday night special, it will not maul my kids of its own decision, no matter how little i oil it, how much i let it rust or no matter what type of ammunition i feed it.

stop the an analogy of a gun and dog. its stupid.

 

[Hitman]

Dude you're going off track here. Were talking about what everyone thinks about when you say Pit Bull and it’s in the News. You know that’s what were talking about too, so not sure where you’re going with this. We know they are not Full Blooded whatever.

We know it's not the Original Breed.

The intelligence test of these dogs is how quick they learn, how many times a command has to be said and how well they listen once the command is given. As well as much more.

I believe you're wrong about AKC. With the help of the AKC Register I can trace my dogs bloodline back to the late 1800's with the very first Labradors. AKC is the most strict of all the Registries.

Not sure what the Terrier's doing over there, but having a Registry like AKC, helps the breed by regulating breeding.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

pit bulls are not AKC registrable. they are that awesome

 

[Mjolnir]

That is what worries me the most about them. Can they be good dogs? Yes but does every good dog have the potential to snap? Yes. The problem again is how much damage a weiner dog could do compared to a dog (byb pitbull/bull) breed for its short fuse and bite force/ablity to maul?

Case in point this one saved someones life. http://news.yahoo.com/video/oddnews...y-pulling-her-from-train-tracks-29258520.html

I don't fear my friends two pitbulls although i know i can not let my guard down either. The potentiol to kill or seriously injure somebody is there. I have seen the results of such injuries first hand and they are nothing to have a pissing match over if the breed is a good dog or not. The two i know are good dogs. Can i trust them to never possibly hurt someone? I can't and I am not looking to change anybodies mind on the matter seeing the results puts it in perspective.

I take it you've been around only a small amount of dogs and even less so around Pit Bulldogs. You erroneously claim the breed was bred "for it's short fuse and bite force/ability to maul". I assume you refer to a quick temper and aggression towards humans. If that's what you mean it's an idiotic statement that you cannot defend, much less provide evidence.

Truth be told you'd be a freaking idiot to let your guard down around ANY dog other than your own. That's how people end up bitten. They aren't YOURS. I never fully trust ANY animal as they have their own emotional response to stimuli and I can't trust everyone to be a "dog person" can I? Right.

So let's sum this up: You fear Bulldogs, Bulldog/Terrier crosses, any SEMBLANCE of same and, of course, Pit Bulls, AmStaffs and the like.

Great.

Leave them the Hell alone. Stick with whatever breed you believe is "human friendly"... Golden Retrievers or Labradoodles.

And please quit spreading hyperbole as fact.

You're acting like the anti-gunners pontificating about something they know little about.

I don't mean to be brash but I tire of the "anti-Pit Bull" and "anti-gun" and "anti-ANYTHING" crowd who are influenced by and prey upon emotion.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

mjolnir. would you be willing to sign a binding legal contract that if your ptbull were to bite anyone for any reason you would be held criminally responsible?

yes or no

 

[Mjolnir]

Dude you're going off track here. Were talking about what everyone thinks about when you say Pit Bull and it’s in the News. You know that’s what were talking about too, so not sure where you’re going with this. We know they are not Full Blooded whatever.

We know it's not the Original Breed.

The intelligence test of these dogs is how quick they learn, how many times a command has to be said and how well they listen once the command is given. As well as much more.

I believe you're wrong about AKC. With the help of the AKC Register I can trace my dogs bloodline back to the late 1800's with the very first Labradors. AKC is the most strict of all the Registries.

Not sure what the Terrier's doing over there, but having a Registry like AKC, helps the breed by regulating breeding.

You are mixing several things. We are speaking about a specific breed. There are several bloodlines within that breed. Let's be specific since you're painting with a very broad brush.

If a breed is stubborn - like all of the working strain Shepherds, Malinau, Dutch Shepherd, Rottweilers, all the working Hounds and Terriers - they won't test well. You could say, "Breed A is more TRACTABLE than Breed B" and I'd not argue. There would be NOTHING to contest you with.

The AKC is but one kennel club. Pit Bulls are NOT registered there. American Staffordshire Terriers are (since 1935). As are Staffordshire Bull Terriers. And Bull Terriers. The UKC is light years ahead of the AKC as they still have Field Trials as opposed to bird dogs that are afraid of birds but have "long feathers on their ears and legs." The AKC is a bitter joke to those in the know.They have destroyed the American-bred German Shepherd and the English Bulldog to name a few. You couldn't toss me an AKC pup.

Addendum: To read their swill and Alex Karis pontificate about what constitutes a "good German Shepherd" (referring to the horrid hind legs/hips they have makes me want to vomit. Add the English bulldog. Bastards cannto breathe in the own beds, teeth are scissored, bad back, bad hips, C-section births yet they state with a straight face that these traits help him bait bulls. And I'm hung like a mule, too... Shall we go on? Oh, yes, the Bull Terrier. Falsified, fancied history and ******** lies about the shape of itls head and what 'mechanical advantage it provides'.

BTW, the first American Staffordshire Terrier was an American Pit Bull Terrier in 1935. This is the dog you see in "The Little Rascals" and it was Carl Revlon who painted the circle on the dog's face. Strange but true.

 

[Mjolnir]

mjolnir. would you be willing to sign a binding legal contract that if your ptbull were to bite anyone for any reason you would be held criminally responsible?

yes or no

No more than you'd be willing to sign same if you shot anyone FOR ANY REASON...

Some people need shooting and some people need biting.

C'mon...

 

[JWG223]

No more than you'd be willing to sign same if you shot anyone FOR ANY REASON...

Some people need shooting and some people need biting.

C'mon...

Isn't there a "1 bite" law on the books somewhere?