Oh boy, the liberals are gonna have a field day with this...

[Magdump]

The difference between US citizens costing the taxpayers money and immigrants costing the taxpayers money is...more and potentially limitless added cost! We have already tipped past the halfway point. Less than half supporting the other half. I resent it. I’ve listed only a few of the groups of recipients and avenues of tax money expenditures that I’d like to see gone.
What if tomorrow you found out some of your tax dollars were being sent to prop up a third world country that finally crumbled due to being communist or socialist or for whatever reason? It’s bad enough that so much of what I work for goes to supporting other people, but I have to watch my money being extended past benefitting our country. Many people are clueless about the state of our welfare system and our social security system and how they are still afloat and where the money comes from and how long they can sustain themselves on the current amount of taxes taken from the working class. Those same clueless people will expect their social security payments and Medicare and whatever else they think they have coming when it’s time, because they worked all their lives and paid their dues and paid their share and paid the shares of so many others over a 30-50 year working lifetime or more. They will likely be disappointed.
That’s the difference. We have enough strain on the working class taxpayer to sink the ship already. Why add to it?

 

[KDerekT83]

I vote, we abolish all forms of money, go back to the barter system, and start a "do over"! lmao..... why can't it be this easy.......... hahaha

 

[John_]

The difference between US citizens costing the taxpayers money and immigrants costing the taxpayers money is...more and potentially limitless added cost! We have already tipped past the halfway point. Less than half supporting the other half. I resent it. I’ve listed only a few of the groups of recipients and avenues of tax money expenditures that I’d like to see gone.
What if tomorrow you found out some of your tax dollars were being sent to prop up a third world country that finally crumbled due to being communist or socialist or for whatever reason? It’s bad enough that so much of what I work for goes to supporting other people, but I have to watch my money being extended past benefitting our country. Many people are clueless about the state of our welfare system and our social security system and how they are still afloat and where the money comes from and how long they can sustain themselves on the current amount of taxes taken from the working class. Those same clueless people will expect their social security payments and Medicare and whatever else they think they have coming when it’s time, because they worked all their lives and paid their dues and paid their share and paid the shares of so many others over a 30-50 year working lifetime or more. They will likely be disappointed.
That’s the difference. We have enough strain on the working class taxpayer to sink the ship already. Why add to it?

Mag, the strategy in play seems to be just print more money. The US debt is now at 21.3 trillion dollars and soaring. I didn't understand/make sense of Trump's tax cuts, minor cuts for pretty much every tax payer to some degree. But the biggest was reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. That's a 40% corporate tax cut!! We were told this was to "jump start" businesses and the economy. But what impact do you think the Trump tax cuts had on the national debt? Less income coming in to the feds. You can best believe big business net profits took a huge increase after the HUGE corporate tax cut.

I cannot help but think Trump is a billionaire, and all of his cabinet members are millionaires/billionaires (read very wealthy). Trump isn't even collecting his salary as POTUS. They are taking care of corporate business, big businesses, their own. That little tax cut the working stiffs got was just a consolation prize.......bait.
How many times has the executive and legislature branches beat their heads, threatened government shutdowns, then passed a bill to extend the debt ceiling. 2x? 3x?

In the end, a growing and out of control national debt devalues our lifetime savings, our purchasing power, our overall wealth. Devalues the dollar over the long run. A time is approaching when people will struggle to put food on the table, to pay their bills, to connect all the dots. And it won't be just those living below the poverty line.

US debt clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[Gator 45/70]

I vote, we abolish all forms of money, go back to the barter system, and start a "do over"! lmao..... why can't it be this easy.......... hahaha

Im in, Gold,Silver and Lead

 

[Magdump]

Mag, the strategy in play seems to be just print more money. The US debt is now at 21.3 trillion dollars and soaring. I didn't understand/make sense of Trump's tax cuts, minor cuts for pretty much every tax payer to some degree. But the biggest was reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. That's a 40% corporate tax cut!! We were told this was to "jump start" businesses and the economy. But what impact do you think the Trump tax cuts had on the national debt? Less income coming in to the feds. You can best believe big business net profits took a huge increase after the HUGE corporate tax cut.

I cannot help but think Trump is a billionaire, and all of his cabinet members are millionaires/billionaires (read very wealthy). Trump isn't even collecting his salary as POTUS. They are taking care of corporate business, big businesses, their own. That little tax cut the working stiffs got was just a consolation prize.......bait.
How many times has the executive and legislature branches beat their heads, threatened government shutdowns, then passed a bill to extend the debt ceiling. 2x? 3x?

In the end, a growing and out of control national debt devalues our lifetime savings, our purchasing power, our overall wealth. Devalues the dollar over the long run. A time is approaching when people will struggle to put food on the table, to pay their bills, to connect all the dots. And it won't be just those living below the poverty line.

US debt clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

yeah, I get that John. Just not sure how it relates to my statement.

 

[thperez1972]

I agree. I would love to see our country get serious about immigration reform, instead of the mindless chatter about building a wall.

As for immigrants costing taxpayer money: what is the difference between them costing us money and American citizens costing us money? We have plenty of deadbeat natural born citizens. Does it really matter that they happened to be born on US soil? And to that end, taxpayers subsidize all sorts of things that they shouldn’t. General Motors was subsidized. Corn farmers get subsidized. Heck, churches that don’t pay taxes get subsidized.

The fallacy of *enforcing the law* is that the law doesn’t always make sense. We do ourself no favors when we hide behind the veil of *enforcing the law* without really understanding what we’re enforcing. Ergo, my question about how many people have actually immigrated.

Mike

I believe we do ourselves a bigger disservice if we ignore a law because we feel it doesn't make sense. Again, if a law is broken, fix the law. The answer isn't to simply ignore the law. Enforcing the law is not a fallacy. It's a social contract put in place for the benefit of the community. If you feel society is better with a particular person dead, you may feel the due process doesn't make sense. After all, everyone know the guy is a weed in the garden of society. Why can't we just eliminate the weed? And if you don't like where I took your comment, you'll raise another issue. Who decides what laws don't make sense and, therefore, get to be ignored? I don't like the speed limit laws. Because of modern engineering and car safety, it doesn't make sense to have such a slow speed limit. Who decides it that law get's to be ignored?

 

[MTregre]

Mag, the strategy in play seems to be just print more money. The US debt is now at 21.3 trillion dollars and soaring. I didn't understand/make sense of Trump's tax cuts, minor cuts for pretty much every tax payer to some degree. But the biggest was reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. That's a 40% corporate tax cut!! We were told this was to "jump start" businesses and the economy. But what impact do you think the Trump tax cuts had on the national debt? Less income coming in to the feds. You can best believe big business net profits took a huge increase after the HUGE corporate tax cut.

I cannot help but think Trump is a billionaire, and all of his cabinet members are millionaires/billionaires (read very wealthy). Trump isn't even collecting his salary as POTUS. They are taking care of corporate business, big businesses, their own. That little tax cut the working stiffs got was just a consolation prize.......bait.
How many times has the executive and legislature branches beat their heads, threatened government shutdowns, then passed a bill to extend the debt ceiling. 2x? 3x?

In the end, a growing and out of control national debt devalues our lifetime savings, our purchasing power, our overall wealth. Devalues the dollar over the long run. A time is approaching when people will struggle to put food on the table, to pay their bills, to connect all the dots. And it won't be just those living below the poverty line.

US debt clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

That tax cut was to bring us closer to the rest of the world. This president seems to understand that the first step to creating jobs is to be competitive. What he should have done, going further, is raising the tax bracket on foreign companies. Give only US based corps the cut.

Also, IIRC, even with the cuts, we have record levels of revenue going into the coffers. The issue IS NOT too low taxes, its too much spending.

 

[John_]

Also, IIRC, even with the cuts, we have record levels of revenue going into the coffers.

Do you have any proof of that since enactment of Trump's corporate tax cut? A link to data?

The issue IS NOT too low taxes, its too much spending.

I concur with you there. But very very unlikely to change. Its a runaway train, and our government is so bipolar.

 

[John_]

Here is a really good article which analyzes the overall impact of the Trump tax cuts long term. https://www.vox.com/2017/12/20/16790040/gop-tax-bill-winners

It isn't rocket science here, fed spending is/has been huge for many years. No cuts in sight. So we cut income in a big way. (which heavily benefits corporations and the ultra wealthy)

So what do you think it does to our national debt?

 

[thperez1972]

Here is a really good article which analyzes the overall impact of the Trump tax cuts long term. https://www.vox.com/2017/12/20/16790040/gop-tax-bill-winners

It isn't rocket science here, fed spending is/has been huge for many years. No cuts in sight. So we cut income in a big way. (which heavily benefits corporations and the ultra wealthy)

So what do you think it does to our national debt?

I'm not sure if VOX would the best source of information to back up a claim.

 

[John_]

I'm not sure if VOX would the best source of information to back up a claim.

Why, whats wrong with Vox?

 

[thperez1972]

Why, whats wrong with Vox?

Before the election, one of the VOX editors advised people, through twitter, to start a riot if Trump came to their town with a rally. One of the reporters, again before the election, said that is Trump won the election, "America would be ruled by a cruel narcissist with authoritarian ambitions." They then compared the possibility of Trump's victory to "standing in front of a gun." They say Trump's popularity is a wake up call as democracy was almost broken beyond repair. That article assumed Hillary would win the election. Vox defends ANTIFA as a group that's getting bad press. VOX wants to silence ideas they don't agree with. They want people to believe right wing people should not be heard on YouTube because right wing ideas breeds extremism and white supremacy. VOX labels themselves as Social Justice Warriors. VOX supports gun control. VOX is partially funded by NBCUniversal. VOX is anti-Trump. VOX articles don't distinguish between "news" and editorials. So care should be taken when deciding if a VOX article contains facts or if it contains a left leaning interpretation of the facts.