270 newbie reloading issues

[turkish]

I have 130gr Hornady SPs that I wanted to load up. When the bullet is seated to a depth that gives COL=3.180" (spec), the cannelure is even with the mouth. When this is the case, the bullet is loose. It will turn and slide up/down in the case the length of the cannelure. If the bullet is not seated as deep, so that the cannelure is exposed above the mouth, there is no slippage.

The bullet diameter measures about .276 according to my caliper, and .267-.268 around the cannelure. Is this diameter difference normal and is this causing the lack of tightness? Thanks.

 

[Danable]

turkish I've been reloading for 8 years and would say that I'm not an expert but I do know a bit about reloading. I'm a batch loader on a single stage RCBS. I don't try to pump as much ammo out of a progressive as I can in an hour and call it a day. Point being that I inspect each case after each process in the reload. I personally have never had a bullet move in a case mouth regarless of the placement of the cannelure. try removing and cleaning your expander button from your resizing die. after its cleaned mic it and see what it measures. this may not be the answer but then again it could be. if the expander button is opening your case mouth too much it may be the reason for the lack of neck tension in your loaded case. also is this brass that you've owned since new ?? if not and did someone else use it and possibly reload with it? did they turn or ream the necks ?? mic your case mouth OD and ID and case thickness at the neck and compare it to info from the web or a detailed handloading manuel. I personally do not load any .277 bullets or .270 so i'm unsure of these dimensions

 

[highstandard40]

A caliper is not the best to measure critical dimensions. Better with a mic.
To have the dimensional differences you note would be a very rare occurrence.
I've never had any name brand bullets be that far off. They should be .277" from base to ogive. Given the fact that you have the correct dies, the issue is likely incomplete sizing or an oversize expander button.

What dies are you using?

 

[Danable]

I agree thats why I said to mic it

 

[Danable]

guess I should have been more specific and said to use a ball micrometer

http://www.6mmbr.com/casenecktools.html

 

[sksshooter]

something i read on another board could be just simply lubing the inside case neck or the sizing pin. some people have seen where the sizing pin will actually pull on the inside of the neck and kind of stretch it. this would leave you with the mouth being the correct size and from there down no telling because it was stretched. it would be an easy thing to try.

 

[turkish]

Thanks for the input. Brass is once-fired, from my dad or me. I am thinking it has something to do with the sizing die. Using Lee sizing dies, that, before today, had been used on about 10 rounds. I went back to those 10 rounds I loaded up last year (never fired them) and the 3 rounds that I seated to spec length also had loose projectiles. Point being that it's not just this week's batch that are doing this and the most common theme is the dies.

From online research, I've even come across folks talking about lapping (polishing or lightly sanding) the ball in the sizing die to remove a small amount of material. I will buy a new set of dies before I get into trying this, though. A bit more invasive than I am comfortable doing.

 

[Danable]

I use RCBS dies and I know for them you can buy just a new expander button. I'm sure you can do the same with LEE dies. It would be a very cheap fix if the button is the problem. I'm curious to find out what is the cause. If you fix the problem, let us know what it was.

 

[highstandard40]

Please don't be offended, but I would suggest dumping the Lee dies and getting a set of Redding dies. RCBS would be a good second choice. Once you load with those you'll thank me.

 

[turkish]

Please don't be offended, but I would suggest dumping the Lee dies and getting a set of Redding dies. RCBS would be a good second choice. Once you load with those you'll thank me.

No offense at all. Have already decided to stay away from the Lees on future die purchases.

From this link, the expander button is # SE2170, right? http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...catalog/dies-rifle.html&1287333732.1496=90505

Pictured here...

 

[highstandard40]

That appears to be the correct one for the Lee dies. Have you measured the one you now have? To understand the process, the size die should reduce the outside diameter of the case neck as well as the body of the case when you push the case into the die. When you withdraw the case, the sizer button is pulled through the case neck and expands the neck to a dimension slightly smaller than the bullet diameter. Try sizing a case without the expander in place and then measure the case neck for uniformity along it's length. Then try again with the expander installed and measure again. This will help you isolate the problem.

As mentioned by a previous poster, lubing the neck can aid the entire process. You will know if this is an issue by the amount of effort needed to withdraw the case from the die. If lube there is an issue, it will take a lot of force and you will hear the expander squeak as it is pulled through the neck. This can stretch the case but if all else is as it should be, the case should still hold a bullet firmly.

 

[turkish]

OK, after messing around a bit more -- here's the deal. This 50-round batch of 270 brass was cleaned up and deprimed/sized with the Lee dies last year. I primed last week and began loading some this weekend -- loaded 12 rounds before finding this little problem with ALL 12.

If I take some of the remaining pieces, carefully remove the live primer, and run them thru the sizing die again (lubing the neck or not), I DON'T see the bullet slippage. I know for a fact they were all sized around a year ago using the same sizing die. So I guess I know how to fix my problem, but I still don't understand the cause. Is it a rule not to size so far in advance? I'll be more careful about it, for sure.

 

[highstandard40]

The brass will not change over time. If the neck doesn't hold a bullet now, it would not have held it last year either. I suspect they were not sized properly last year (dies not adjusted right). If you have it figured out now, chalk it up to experience and enjoy.

 

[sksshooter]

Not to offend but are you sure you sized them properly the first time aroun. Also once you get a little lube on the sizing pin it will go a long way so if you did lube one to try it will take care of quit a few cases. I usually lube about every 10th case or so and I've not had a problem. Also how did you clean the brass last year before you put them up. And one more thing to watch out for is when you are seating the bullets get a good chamfer on the mouth and also watch the seating die depth I recently found out how easy it is to start to buckle a case due to a improperly set die. And last try to make sure your bullet is sitting strait on the case when you begin to seat it or it will quickly deform the case mouth

 

[turkish]

Of course, I don't pretend to be perfect. Brass was tumbled, lubed with Dillon case lube, sized/deprimed, and stored in Ziploc bags. I'm just having a hard time figuring out what kind of improper use of the sizing die could cause the problem I'm seeing.

 

[highstandard40]

I'm just having a hard time figuring out what kind of improper use of the sizing die could cause the problem I'm seeing.

One way I can see to cause this problem would be if you only sized a very small portion of the neck by not having the die set close enough to the shell holder. If you could describe in detail how you set your dies the first time, it would help up diagnose this for you.

 

[turkish]

With the ram up (Rockchucker), screw in the die to touch shell holder, lower ram, screw in another 1/2 turn -- as I recall. But, I agree, the most likely scenario seems to be that the die wasn't in far enough, so that the neck was never compressed by the die before the expander came back thru. Right?

If the die was in far enough to push out the primer, wouldn't it be in far enough to compress the neck -- or not necessarily? Thanks again for the input.

 

[sksshooter]

^^^ this if you only partially sized the case then the full lenght of the neck would not have been sized. that would leave it tight at the mouth and still formed to your chamber as you got closer to the neck. when you put in the sizing die it needs to touch the shell holder. i know some people advocate screwing it in until it touches and then lowering the ram and another 1/8-1/4 turn.

 

[sksshooter]

on my lee dies the pin is long enough to partially size them and still nock out the primer. alot of guys actually prefer to do that its called partial full leng resizing. they set the die to where it will just size the neck but not push the shoulder back. that allows them to get the neck tension that is needed but keep the brass fireformed to their rifle so i would say you yes it is possible to nock out the primer without fully sizing the neck.

 

[turkish]

on my lee dies the pin is long enough to partially size them and still nock out the primer. alot of guys actually prefer to do that its called partial full leng resizing. they set the die to where it will just size the neck but not push the shoulder back. that allows them to get the neck tension that is needed but keep the brass fireformed to their rifle so i would say you yes it is possible to nock out the primer without fully sizing the neck.

Right. I am familiar with neck sizing or partial sizing -- haven't messed with that yet. At least not intentionally.