300 Blackout SBR

[Redbull]

So, you guys watching the class iii posts really helped me with my suppressor choice in my YHM post...although I chose the AAC! I'm hoping you can help me with something else.

I have an '08 Rock River Entry Tactical that is set up for tactical use with quad rail, Eotech, and foregrip. With the suppressor addition to my collection, I'm thinking that I may look into an SBR 300 Blackout and move my tactical items over to it. Then I could get a ballistic matched scope to mount the 5.56 and convert it over to more medium to long range use. Any thoughts???

Also, anyone have any experience with DS Arms or CMMG??? They have some decently priced rifles considering my budget. Don't want to invest in junk though...

 

[david mitchell]

I have the CMMG, works sub and super with the suppressor.

 

[Redbull]

What barrel length are you running? Also, what's the scoop with the twist rate? I've seen 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 (different manufacturers) but I'm curious just the same.

I've read that it helps with projectile stability but don't quite understand which is better.

 

[jgreco15]

For 300BLK, look for a 1:7 or 1:8. The 1:8 will allow you to shoot subs up to 220 grain. The 1:7 will get you a bit heavier, like 240 gr. Not saying a 1:8 won't stabalize anything over 220 but its not common.

I have the 1:8 and the 220 subs work great. I really don't need to go much heavier.

 

[Ritten]

Then I could get a ballistic matched scope to mount the 5.56 and convert it over to more medium to long range use. Any thoughts???

Don't. Dopes change.....ballistic matched scopes don't.

 

[JNieman]

Don't. Dopes change.....ballistic matched scopes don't.

I've seen at least one 300BLK ballistic matched scope with 'rumor' or more coming. However, I still don't think I'd care for it. With a rainbow trajectory (not hating, but I know what it is) and the difference between a 125 and 220 grain bullet... seems like it'd be a challenge to make a reliable scope for whatever the user does with his 300.
/shrug

 

[Ritten]

I've seen at least one 300BLK ballistic matched scope with 'rumor' or more coming. However, I still don't think I'd care for it. With a rainbow trajectory (not hating, but I know what it is) and the difference between a 125 and 220 grain bullet... seems like it'd be a challenge to make a reliable scope for whatever the user does with his 300.
/shrug

Ballistic matched scopes are not the same thing as caliber specific scopes. The later being an even bigger gimmick than the first. For mid-range to long range shooting (which the OP asked about), environmental conditions changes will alter the amount of elevation needed for a shot from the same load/gun/bullet combination that the BALLISTIC MATCHED reticle or scope turret was designed for. A 300blk really has no place shooting mid-long range if any kind of reasonable accuracy is expected.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Dont go slower than 1:8 and if you are piecing it together buy a 1:7 barrel. If you are buying a complete 300 BLK upper I would go AAC or Noveske.

As far as a .223 being a "Medium to Long Range" caliber there are better choices. And unless you reload (and even if you do) 300 BLK ammo is not anywhere close to the same ecnomics of .223/5.56 so make sure you are prepared to pay for the increased price of ammo. Cost / benefit depends on your disposable income and how many rounds you plan to shoot regularly. But blasting through a 30 round mag of 55gr .223 vs 30 rds of Remington 300 BLK subsonics is orders of magnitude different in price.

 

[JNieman]

Ballistic matched scopes are not the same thing as caliber specific scopes. The later being an even bigger gimmick than the first. For mid-range to long range shooting (which the OP asked about), environmental conditions changes will alter the amount of elevation needed for a shot from the same load/gun/bullet combination that the BALLISTIC MATCHED reticle or scope turret was designed for. A 300blk really has no place shooting mid-long range if any kind of reasonable accuracy is expected.

Gotcha, I've never used one - only ever learned my holdovers for the shooting I was doing with a particular rifle. Never delved into getting such specialized glass. Thanks for the lesson.

 

[JNieman]

Dont go slower than 1:8 and if you are piecing it together buy a 1:7 barrel. If you are buying a complete 300 BLK upper I would go AAC or Noveske.

As far as a .223 being a "Medium to Long Range" caliber there are better choices. And unless you reload (and even if you do) 300 BLK ammo is not anywhere close to the same ecnomics of .223/5.56 so make sure you are prepared to pay for the increased price of ammo. Cost / benefit depends on your disposable income and how many rounds you plan to shoot regularly. But blasting through a 30 round mag of 55gr .223 vs 30 rds of Remington 300 BLK subsonics is orders of magnitude different in price.

Comparing it to .223 plinking ammo is kind of misleading and pointless. The rounds are not designed for remotely the same purpose, and there isn't any milsurp or government contract overrun for 300BLK like there is for 5.56. You're also looking at bullets with 3-5x the mass of a .223 bullet.

Not trying to turn this into a "Why 300BLK is awesome" thread - just trying to keep it even keeled. You're looking at $0.40/0.50 per round for lightweight plinking and $0.90/$1 for premium stuff, at the moment. It's not expensive, it's just not milsurp/overrun ammo. It is nowhere near "orders of magnitude" different. It's twice as expensive.

 

[Barney88PDC]

My point was if you were "training / practicing" with this caliber and going shoot say 1000 rounds at a class in a weekend killing paper they both do the same ****. The subsonic is about $1/rd whereas .223 55gr can be had in the $0.35/rd range. Did a Google search for both rounds and picked the first post that came up.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...0-grain-subsonic-open-tip-match-otm-box-of-20

http://www.bulkammo.com/1000-rounds-of-223-ammo-by-pmc-55gr-fmjbt

As far as terminal ballistics they are worlds apart. You dont have to sell me on the caliber I own both. And at roughly 3 times the price IMO that is orders of magnitude different. All I am trying to save the guy from is some people I know got on the wagon really early and now don't shoot them that much because of the cost of ammunition. Just wanted to make sure he took that into consideration. If you do not feel 3x the price is a huge difference I would like to do some banking with you. Carry On.

 

[SGT_Kramer]

My point was if you were "training / practicing" with this caliber and going shoot say 1000 rounds at a class in a weekend killing paper they both do the same ****. The subsonic is about $1/rd whereas .223 55gr can be had in the $0.35/rd range. Did a Google search for both rounds and picked the first post that came up.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...0-grain-subsonic-open-tip-match-otm-box-of-20

http://www.bulkammo.com/1000-rounds-of-223-ammo-by-pmc-55gr-fmjbt

As far as terminal ballistics they are worlds apart. You dont have to sell me on the caliber I own both. And at roughly 3 times the price IMO that is orders of magnitude different. All I am trying to save the guy from is some people I know got on the wagon really early and now don't shoot them that much because of the cost of ammunition. Just wanted to make sure he took that into consideration. If you do not feel 3x the price is a huge difference I would like to do some banking with you. Carry On.

If your just blasting paper then use this stuff http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-REML300AAC2 Still more expensive but not 20 a box. I'd ditch the scoped long range AR idea and just buy a 300 BO upper.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Fair enough. This is a closer apples to apples comparison. But still a box at a time there isn't much difference, 1000 at a time it addes up. It goes back to my first statement of it depends on how much banging you plan on doing. Unless you are independently wealthy then who cares.

 

[JNieman]

My point was if you were "training / practicing" with this caliber and going shoot say 1000 rounds at a class in a weekend killing paper they both do the same ****. The subsonic is about $1/rd whereas .223 55gr can be had in the $0.35/rd range. Did a Google search for both rounds and picked the first post that came up.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...0-grain-subsonic-open-tip-match-otm-box-of-20

http://www.bulkammo.com/1000-rounds-of-223-ammo-by-pmc-55gr-fmjbt

As far as terminal ballistics they are worlds apart. You dont have to sell me on the caliber I own both. And at roughly 3 times the price IMO that is orders of magnitude different. All I am trying to save the guy from is some people I know got on the wagon really early and now don't shoot them that much because of the cost of ammunition. Just wanted to make sure he took that into consideration. If you do not feel 3x the price is a huge difference I would like to do some banking with you. Carry On.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

http://www.lg-outdoors.com/proddetail.asp?prod=93577 <--- Plinking 147gr @ $0.57/round I usually check www.ammoseek.com in addition to my normal favorite places, just to check on ammo prices. Splitting hairs, here, though.

Yea, I don't expect people to have a 300BLK for a training class... I would still use a 5.56 as a training analog. Besides NOT being sponsored and getting free ammo, it just doesn't make sense to run it suppressed in a class when everyone else is gonna be running regular carbines, with some assholes running ear-beating brakes.

 

[Ritten]

I run ear-beating brakes...

 

[JNieman]

I run ear-beating brakes...

*shakes fist*

I'm only bitter because a dude next to me on the line recently had a JP Rifles 2 port brake that was thumpin' my chest every shot. It's all in good fun.

 

[Redbull]

Guys, you just don't let me down! I'll give you a little more info as you guys have dissected a lot. First, thank you for the idea of dropping the ballistic compensated scope idea. My thoughts were simply that since I have no formal training with shooting at distances, that the default manufacture settings would get me "close".

Second, I agree that there are better calibers for longer distances. I currently use my .300 win mag for distances of 300yrds or so. Haven't had a place to shoot longer...and like mentioned above, no formal training.

Lastly, I don't get to plink much but am hoping to do more after the suppressor is transferred. I do understand that the ammo is going to cost more, but I figured (just as you guys have pointed out) I can do any training/bulk plinking with the AR and use the 300BLK a little more sparingly. Both will be set up for quick attach of the suppressor.

All said, I'll probably hop on the wagon for the 300BLK...but I may slow up on the process to check a few things out. I've also received some good intel that Red Jacket plans to add them to the product line in the future so I may hold off to check it out. I like the idea of supporting locals.