I think it is what they are capable of that’s the issue. Folks like to throw out numbers about other breeds and how many people were bitten by this breed of dog or that type dog but the problem still is what these dogs were breaded for, blood sports in the United Kingdom in the 1800 to fight and kill. They have a high tolerance to pain and the pounds for pressure that they can exert with their jaws. Just ask Michael Vick how nice these dogs can be. I’m sure he has some stories to tell.
4 year old killed by pit bull in Houma
- Thread starter FTRrookie
- Start date
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I think the issue many people have is the non-accountability that the parents face.
A loaded gun left on the coffee table.
A child picks it up and shoots himself or some else.
Parents will be charged.
Should the same be applied to these Breeds?
What I do know, and I've said it many times before on here.
Mnay of you have watched my dog go from pup to present >http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?72804
A Full-Blooded, Dual AKC/UKC Registered Dog. Whose blood line is unbroken and can be tracked
parent by parent back to the first Labs bought into the US. That (is) the integrity and accuracy of Reg. breeds.
His Blood line is filled with pets and Champion Retrievers in both Hunt Test and Field Trials.
Since he was 7 weeks old the kids have pet him at chow time. Poked him in the eye, stepped on his paws,
and yes....even poked his manhood...well b/c kids just do the damndest things.
NEVER ONCE has he ever so much as flinched at them. Not even stopped eating.
To him, that is LIFE. It's all he's ever known since he was 7 weeks old.
YET STILL!!! I'm never more than kicking distance away from him during chow time when they're all on top of him.
He is STILL an animal, and last I checked he doesn't speak English. He understands it, but is incapable of communicating to me through it.
So even with a properly socialized easy going dog like that. He's still an animal, I'm not taking any chances.
And that brings me to my #1 theory surrounding these Attacks by Guard Dog type Breeds.
NOT exclusively, but damn near,
It seems that most all of these attacks and/or killings,
occur from the Dogs that have been in the home BEFORE the child/children were.
That is a HUGE deal, IMO.
If a dog is bought into the home AFTER all kids are born,
it is raised always knowing it is NOT the Alpha.
But if a dog lives in the home before kids, it's Alpha status,
(or at least it's Alpha Two status) is threatened.
They ARE animals, they think like this.
This is why SO MANY Grandparents little pocket pups bite their grandchildren.
MawMaw gets a puppy b/c she's lonely. PawPaw doesn't give a ****.
That dog gets EVERYTHING and is SPOILED rotten. It is the Alpha dog, b/c it's the ONLY one in the house.
It gets loved and groomed and bathed and a little blanket and sweater shirt and all that crap.
Now here comes little Johnny yanking on it's ears, biting it, chasing it around, all kinds craziness
completely challenging the dogs standard way of life. So it warns him with a SNIP!
The difference, as we've covered already, Pits/Rots/GSD's and the like....they don't SNIP.
They usually have the idea that they are going to END whatever this challenge to their way of life is.
They don't take it personally, but to them, they don't do warnings, they do 'I'm ending this **** right now forever'.
Add that with the strength and tools to do it
and you have what we see now.
Well capable, very strong Dogs,
in the hands of idiots
who put their kids in harms way
as well as other dogs and people
b/c they're not responsible enough to know any better,
or possibly incapable in all regards.
So no, I don't think they should be banned from production
I do however think their should be MORE accountability for the owners
b/c if it's not the BREEDS fault, than it (is) the owners.....right? Right!
Anyone agree with my theory? I've seen it so many times.
Dog before kids> Potential for Alpha Battle
Kids before Dog> Less potential for Alpha Battle
A loaded gun left on the coffee table.
A child picks it up and shoots himself or some else.
Parents will be charged.
Should the same be applied to these Breeds?
What I do know, and I've said it many times before on here.
Mnay of you have watched my dog go from pup to present >http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?72804
A Full-Blooded, Dual AKC/UKC Registered Dog. Whose blood line is unbroken and can be tracked
parent by parent back to the first Labs bought into the US. That (is) the integrity and accuracy of Reg. breeds.
His Blood line is filled with pets and Champion Retrievers in both Hunt Test and Field Trials.
Since he was 7 weeks old the kids have pet him at chow time. Poked him in the eye, stepped on his paws,
and yes....even poked his manhood...well b/c kids just do the damndest things.
NEVER ONCE has he ever so much as flinched at them. Not even stopped eating.
To him, that is LIFE. It's all he's ever known since he was 7 weeks old.
YET STILL!!! I'm never more than kicking distance away from him during chow time when they're all on top of him.
He is STILL an animal, and last I checked he doesn't speak English. He understands it, but is incapable of communicating to me through it.
So even with a properly socialized easy going dog like that. He's still an animal, I'm not taking any chances.
And that brings me to my #1 theory surrounding these Attacks by Guard Dog type Breeds.
NOT exclusively, but damn near,
It seems that most all of these attacks and/or killings,
occur from the Dogs that have been in the home BEFORE the child/children were.
That is a HUGE deal, IMO.
If a dog is bought into the home AFTER all kids are born,
it is raised always knowing it is NOT the Alpha.
But if a dog lives in the home before kids, it's Alpha status,
(or at least it's Alpha Two status) is threatened.
They ARE animals, they think like this.
This is why SO MANY Grandparents little pocket pups bite their grandchildren.
MawMaw gets a puppy b/c she's lonely. PawPaw doesn't give a ****.
That dog gets EVERYTHING and is SPOILED rotten. It is the Alpha dog, b/c it's the ONLY one in the house.
It gets loved and groomed and bathed and a little blanket and sweater shirt and all that crap.
Now here comes little Johnny yanking on it's ears, biting it, chasing it around, all kinds craziness
completely challenging the dogs standard way of life. So it warns him with a SNIP!
The difference, as we've covered already, Pits/Rots/GSD's and the like....they don't SNIP.
They usually have the idea that they are going to END whatever this challenge to their way of life is.
They don't take it personally, but to them, they don't do warnings, they do 'I'm ending this **** right now forever'.
Add that with the strength and tools to do it
and you have what we see now.
Well capable, very strong Dogs,
in the hands of idiots
who put their kids in harms way
as well as other dogs and people
b/c they're not responsible enough to know any better,
or possibly incapable in all regards.
So no, I don't think they should be banned from production
I do however think their should be MORE accountability for the owners
b/c if it's not the BREEDS fault, than it (is) the owners.....right? Right!
Anyone agree with my theory? I've seen it so many times.
Dog before kids> Potential for Alpha Battle
Kids before Dog> Less potential for Alpha Battle
My Glock Pistol was breed in Austria to shoot people in the face. If I allow it to injure my family then it is MY fault not the pistols. Roy or Seigfried whichever snapperhead got chewed by the Tiger is responsible for the Tiger biting him. As Chris rock famously said "...The Tiger went Tiger". It has been alledged the Dog in the Houma Attack was being dosed with Steroids. If that is found to be the case I hope both parents are criminally charged.
+9
and no, Hitman, dogs pack mentality is not that black/white. I am the Alpha, always, and this house and all in it are my domain. Any disobedience will suffer my almighty wrath, and challenging me is a fatal mistake. If you truly know, believe, live, and train your animals this way you'll never have an issue. It is quite easy to train dogs that children are their masters- in my experience many children make better "masters" than adults do.
+1 What Hitman said. I won't get into all the specifics he mentioned- but I can't see how anyone could disagree with not taking chances with kids around them - except perhaps the mentally ill.
I love dogs, too. But putting a dog ahead of a child's well-being is....okay, I'll just stop.
I love dogs, too. But putting a dog ahead of a child's well-being is....okay, I'll just stop.
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+1 What Hitman said. I won't get into all the specifics he mentioned- but I can't see how anyone could disagree with not taking chances with kids around them - except perhaps the mentally ill.
I love dogs, too. But putting a dog ahead of a child's well-being is....okay, I'll just stop.
I dont see anyone here condoning a dog over a child...
exactly, they love doing what they do too. It's definitely not the family do I have in mind for protection, a lot of better dogs for this, like German Shepards and Retrievers.
When I had my American Bully (lets not fool ourselves an American Bully is a Giant Pit bred because Country Folk wanted bigger catch dogs) I knew I would have kids one day. From the time he was tiny I made him submit. I played with his ears, opened his mouth, put a stop to dominate behaviors, and created an environment where he knew he wasn't the boss of **** in my home. From the time my oldest son was born until "Gus" was but down because of Lymphoma he knew that he wasn't the boss of the baby and if the baby wanted to play with his ears etc well that was the ropes. It is an animal. If you have dominion over it you are responsible for shaping its behavior.
You seem to do this often 
.......but then you go on to list the exact Black and White thought process
of Disobey = Face Consequence.
See? That's simple Black/White philosophy.
How many of these owners TRULY KNOW how to train a dog of this kind?
and that IMO is still where the line must be drawn in NOT comparing this to firearms.
Lest to own one we pass laws
forcing people to be Proficient with a Firearm before purchase.
A tricky conversation this is
.......but then you go on to list the exact Black and White thought process
of Disobey = Face Consequence.
See? That's simple Black/White philosophy.
How many of these owners TRULY KNOW how to train a dog of this kind?
and that IMO is still where the line must be drawn in NOT comparing this to firearms.
Lest to own one we pass laws
forcing people to be Proficient with a Firearm before purchase.
A tricky conversation this is
Anyone agree with my theory? I've seen it so many times.
Dog before kids> Potential for Alpha Battle
Kids before Dog> Less potential for Alpha Battle
Hitman,
I tend to agree with what wabbit stated.
I have an 11 year old female Shepherd and a 3 year old grandson that I am raising. My dog sees me as the alpha male, my wife as the alpha female. She also understands that our 3 other older children are in rank before her. She was in the household before my grandson and from day 1 has actually took a role in raising/protecting him and almost acts as if he were her pup. LOL.
I understand the logic that you were using, but I do not think that is the case in every situation.
No, hitman, you implied that if a dog joins a family he sees newcomers afterwards as beta animals. this "black and white" theory is not true whatsoever.
Family Humans > Human visitors/friends> Him > Non-family humans.
In the wild the heirarchy is: Alpha > Pack > sick/weak/unstable > non-pack
Without knowing a single thing about training animals, I'd suggest you exercise ANY dog every single day and pickup a book on basic commands. My 120lb shepherd (any of my dogs upon edit) would sit perfectly at attention with a toddler holding a treat in front of his nose for half an hour. In his mind, the toddler was the master... and just as breaking the "masters" rules is a fatal mistake in the wild, its no different "in my domain". You just have to ditch your human rationality because it doesn't apply to dogs.
Example: training mother-in-laws dogs... she says "I give them their treats at the same time because thats fair"
What seems fair to humans is throwing gasoline on a fire in the canine world.
Family Humans > Human visitors/friends> Him > Non-family humans.
In the wild the heirarchy is: Alpha > Pack > sick/weak/unstable > non-pack
Without knowing a single thing about training animals, I'd suggest you exercise ANY dog every single day and pickup a book on basic commands. My 120lb shepherd (any of my dogs upon edit) would sit perfectly at attention with a toddler holding a treat in front of his nose for half an hour. In his mind, the toddler was the master... and just as breaking the "masters" rules is a fatal mistake in the wild, its no different "in my domain". You just have to ditch your human rationality because it doesn't apply to dogs.
Example: training mother-in-laws dogs... she says "I give them their treats at the same time because thats fair"
What seems fair to humans is throwing gasoline on a fire in the canine world.
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Same here. Even if there's a .0001% chance of even a perceived risk to my kids I'm not doing it. And that is indeed the case with certain breeds. Doesn't mean I think they should be banned or unjustly vilified, just that I'm terribly overprotective.
exactly, I don't think it should be outlawed and killed off, they are great dogs and provide good companionship and most of the ones I have had in my younger days where very good dogs, only aggressive towards other animals, but I would have one now with my kids. It's just too much of a possibility. My dad bred German Shepards for years we always had plenty of well behaved smart dogs. But I have seen a Shepard rip a door knob off with his teeth trying to get out after someone. I want a large dog for family protection, but I will wait until the baby is older. We have a Boston Terrier/Pug mix that is a brindle color who is the sweetest dog I have ever had, everyone thinks he's a french bulldog, the kids to what ever to him, he has never snapped one time at anyone. He barks when he hears someone and that's enough right now to get us up and alerted someone may be outside.
VG keep that thing on a leash!
You never know what they are thinkin nor when they may attack.
VG keep that thing on a leash!
You never know what they are thinkin nor when they may attack.
LOL...I think Paintball just found VG's new avatar and signature line
