A Good Deer Bullet

[dzelenka]

Out of the same 7 mag. I bought it and did not have time to reload for it. Was shooting some factory 140gr. Always core jacket seperation, always a lot of blood meat.
Same thing when I shot them out of my 06. 150 and 165 gr behind 4350. Too much meat damage.

They were found in dead deer, right? They will damage meat, especially if you drive them really fast (like out of a magnum), but they kill well. You might want to keep them out of the edible areas like shoulders. They are hell on wheels for lung shots. I really like them for single shot pistols.

I am ordering some of the Accubonds to see if I can just change bullets and keep the same zero and accuracy. The Accubonds look like they will hold together better while retaining the virtues of the Ballistic Tips.

The majority of my big game kills were with Partitions and I love them (my .280 doesn't though), but I have never had a Ballistic Tip fail to perform for me. I don't think I have ever needed to shoot one twice with one either.

 

[dzelenka]

I have been using ballistic tips in my '06 for years -- almost never exit, but the damge on the inside is impressive to say the least.

If anyone has any direct experience with Barns TSX (autopsy photos would be great) I would appreciate your input.

Good thread.

I have not used the TSX, but I have used a lot of the original X bullets. THey penetrate deeply with a wound channel that is about 3" in diameter for its entire length. They kill really well. In addition, I have several friends who have used the TSX and speak really highly of them. I wouldn't hesitate to use them if my rifle shot them accurately.

 

[Ritten]

If anyone has any direct experience with Barns TSX (autopsy photos would be great) I would appreciate your input.

I had my first experience last weekend with a 165 TSX out of a .308 on an 85lbs doe. Entry was a low chest shot, but the exit was right where you see it. She ran about 15yds with a very slight blood trail, but the chest cavity looked like someone took a blender to it. She walked in front of the muzzle at 30yds while I was aiming at her sister 150yds away.

 

[dzelenka]

I shoot a Remington 7600 Carbine 30-06. I started hunting with the -06 when I was a Junior in High School, and I'll be turning 29 in Feb. I have killed between 40 & 50 deer with my little rig. The second year I hunted with it I switched from 150 Win Power Points to 180 Core-Lokt's because with the Power Points deer was running off. I haven't had any trouble since the switch. I know the Carbine isn't a long range setup and I don't use it for one, but have killed deer 300 plus with it. Remington's sales pitch......"Deadliest Mushroom In The Woods" has filled my family's freezers a few times for cheap!

Deer shot with 150 gr Power Points from an 06 should not run very far if they are well hit.

To me, a deer that runs 50 yards or less after being shot isn't really running off.

 

[Akajun]

They were found in dead deer, right? They will damage meat, especially if you drive them really fast (like out of a magnum), but they kill well. You might want to keep them out of the edible areas like shoulders. They are hell on wheels for lung shots. I really like them for single shot pistols.

I am ordering some of the Accubonds to see if I can just change bullets and keep the same zero and accuracy. The Accubonds look like they will hold together better while retaining the virtues of the Ballistic Tips.

The majority of my big game kills were with Partitions and I love them (my .280 doesn't though), but I have never had a Ballistic Tip fail to perform for me. I don't think I have ever needed to shoot one twice with one either.

You are right about that, they dont run off, its the meat issue with me. Im going on Friday, you coming?

 

[dzelenka]

I believe I can arrange that. Let's talk off line.

 

[Uncle John]

The Nosler Partition is not a heavily constructed bullet designed for elk hunting. The purpose for and beauty of the Partition is its versatility. That bullet is designed to expand rapidly no matter the velocity (they will expand as slow as 1900 - 2000 fps) but this expansion is limited by the partition which guarantees that 60% of the weight will be retained. In deer calibers the bullet works great and is more dependable then almost anything else out there. It is the standard by which other game bullets are measured. If you think otherwise, you must not have shot many deer with it.

Please provide more of an explanation of the "plastic pass through".

You are correct the Nosler Partition bullet was not designed for elk hunting. John Nosler specifically designed it for Moose hunting, he used a 300 H&H Magnum. The bullets at the time about 1948, were too lightly constructed and kept blowing up on big animals (Nosler history).

Plastic pass through: The plastic tip of the bullet fails to push back and expand the hollow point in which it is inserted for just that reason. When they do expand they do a great job, and when they don't you get about the same results as you would with a FMJ.

The idea here is to select the right bullet for the right game. The Winchester Soft Point would be a far better selection than a Nosler Partition all else being equal on deer. However if you are going to turn a small deer into a moose by using something like the .223 a 60 grain Nosler Partition would be an exception to the rule. This is nothing new I had this explained to me back in the 1980s and it still holds true.

Both the Nosler Partition and Barnes X type bullets when pushed to magnum speed will break bone better than a soft point bullet. They also leave a smaller exit hole. Of course you can put an All Round handle on any of the bullets mention because they will all work, just some better than others when you get into specifics.

Hunters love expensive guns, cheap bullets and cheaper scopes. Every gun writer knows this. Both the Winchester Soft Point and the Remington Corloct are inexpensive, personally I think you will get better performance out of the Winchester in popular deer cartridges such as the 308 and 30-06. If you are going to hunt deer with magnum rifles it is a different ball game again.

 

[Akajun]

You are correct the Nosler Partition bullet was not designed for elk hunting. John Nosler specifically designed it for Moose hunting, he used a 300 H&H Magnum. The bullets at the time about 1948, were too lightly constructed and kept blowing up on big animals (Nosler history).

QUOTE]

Yes he designed THAT BULLET for moose. I believe it was a 180gr. However the Partition design is used in various calibers and grains, all with different jacket thicknesses. All Partiions are not Moose Bullets. I shoot an 85gr partition in my 243 and 6mm, that most certianly is not a Moose bullet, neither is a 140gr 7mag, or 308 165gr or 150gr partition.
Partitions are premium bullets designed to shoot accuratly and penetrate further than standard bullets rather than rapidly expand.

When he designed the partiion, 30 cal was considered "light" most hunters at that time used 35 caliber and up for anything bigger than deer, and big lead bullets were still in use. He just figured out that smaller calibers need a thicker jacket at high velocity.

 

[Corregidor]

30-06 Federal Premiums with 165 grain Sierra Gamekings. Yes, they are expensive for soft points but I don't mind paying a little extra for consistency. But, it all depends on what your rifle shoots accurately. I went through a nosler partition, trophy bonded bear claw, fail safe, SST and ballistic tip phase. However, one day I came to the realization that an unearthly amount of game has been taken this century, before the magic bullet craze, with none other than good old fashioned softpoints. I started using them and couldn't be happier and won't use anything else. But to each his own.

 

[Bearco]

I started neck shooting whenever possible at 150 yrds and in. Most are DRT, but some so flop for a few seconds. All fall in their tracks. I only do this on my meat deer and only when I know I can pull off the shot (braced). I shot a 165gr 308, currently Federal Fusion ammo.

 

[Uncle John]

You are correct the Nosler Partition bullet was not designed for elk hunting. John Nosler specifically designed it for Moose hunting, he used a 300 H&H Magnum. The bullets at the time about 1948, were too lightly constructed and kept blowing up on big animals (Nosler history).

QUOTE]

Yes he designed THAT BULLET for moose. I believe it was a 180gr. However the Partition design is used in various calibers and grains, all with different jacket thicknesses. All Partiions are not Moose Bullets. I shoot an 85gr partition in my 243 and 6mm, that most certianly is not a Moose bullet, neither is a 140gr 7mag, or 308 165gr or 150gr partition.
Partitions are premium bullets designed to shoot accuratly and penetrate further than standard bullets rather than rapidly expand.

When he designed the partiion, 30 cal was considered "light" most hunters at that time used 35 caliber and up for anything bigger than deer, and big lead bullets were still in use. He just figured out that smaller calibers need a thicker jacket at high velocity.

Yes that was clear in the example of the 223 the same holds true for 6mms. Simple...

 

[Barney88PDC]

Anyone with first hand experience of the terminal effects of the Berger VLD Hunting bullets. The external ballistics are very good out of my rifle and there is no POI shift from my SMK target loads. Also the dope is the same with the same velocities according to my Ballistic FTE program which I love so I do not have to remember two range cards.

 

[dzelenka]

Anyone with first hand experience of the terminal effects of the Berger VLD Hunting bullets. The external ballistics are very good out of my rifle and there is no POI shift from my SMK target loads. Also the dope is the same with the same velocities according to my Ballistic FTE program which I love so I do not have to remember two range cards.

The people who I have talked to who use them really like them. These are experienced hunters so I give their opinion weight. I have seen videos of animals shot with them and they have been impressive.

 

[dzelenka]

You are correct the Nosler Partition bullet was not designed for elk hunting. John Nosler specifically designed it for Moose hunting, he used a 300 H&H Magnum. The bullets at the time about 1948, were too lightly constructed and kept blowing up on big animals (Nosler history).

Plastic pass through: The plastic tip of the bullet fails to push back and expand the hollow point in which it is inserted for just that reason. When they do expand they do a great job, and when they don't you get about the same results as you would with a FMJ.

The idea here is to select the right bullet for the right game. The Winchester Soft Point would be a far better selection than a Nosler Partition all else being equal on deer. However if you are going to turn a small deer into a moose by using something like the .223 a 60 grain Nosler Partition would be an exception to the rule. This is nothing new I had this explained to me back in the 1980s and it still holds true.

Both the Nosler Partition and Barnes X type bullets when pushed to magnum speed will break bone better than a soft point bullet. They also leave a smaller exit hole. Of course you can put an All Round handle on any of the bullets mention because they will all work, just some better than others when you get into specifics.

Hunters love expensive guns, cheap bullets and cheaper scopes. Every gun writer knows this. Both the Winchester Soft Point and the Remington Corloct are inexpensive, personally I think you will get better performance out of the Winchester in popular deer cartridges such as the 308 and 30-06. If you are going to hunt deer with magnum rifles it is a different ball game again.

I recognize that your posts are only your opinion. In my opinion, you are incorrect. If you had said that the Winchester Soft Point is a good deer bullet that will provide one shot kills provided that it is a suitable caliber and bullet weight and the shot is well placed, I would completely agree with you. As I have said already, deer do not require much killing. Saying that any non bonded, conventionally designed soft point is a "far better selection" for deer than a Nosler Partition is just wrong. The Partition, by virtue of its design, will perform with nauseating reliability for any impact velocity above 2000 fps. You really cannot say the same of a conventional soft point. If you design it for an impact velocity of 2800, the jacket will likely be too thick to be reliable at lower velocities. If you design for lower velocities, you will sacrifice penetration and meat if the deer shows up close to you. With the Partition, you will get violent expansion of the front core and absolute weight retention of the rear. It really doesn't get any better than that.

Below is a picture of recovered bullets. The 5 in the top right corner are Partitions in various weights and calibers. The 4 on the right were taken out of deer and consist of 130 gr .270; 150 gr .280; 150 gr .30-06 and 165 gr .300 Win Mag. Notice the uniform expansion out of a variety of calibers and impact velocities. If you want to be certain of the performance of your bullet no matter what shot presents itself, you should think long and hard about using the Partition. The last bullet (on the left) is a 200 gr from a .300 Jarrett that penetrated nearly lengthwise through a wildebeest. The same bullet will expand on deer, but I have never been able to get one to stop inside to be recovered.

There are a number of conventional jacketed soft points in the picture. Even though I put them back together, every one of them had their core separate from the jacket. I don't call this a bullet failure because they came from dead deer, but who knows if the angle was worse or a bone needed to be penetrated or the impact velocity was higher. Thankfully, deer don't need a lot of penetration when hit correctly.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

 

[Uncle John]

I started neck shooting whenever possible at 150 yrds and in. Most are DRT, but some so flop for a few seconds. All fall in their tracks. I only do this on my meat deer and only when I know I can pull off the shot (braced). I shot a 165gr 308, currently Federal Fusion ammo.

I have been hearing a lot of good things about Federal Fusion ammo, as deer ammo. This looks real good but I havent tried one yet. I have seen Federals with Nosler ballistic tips do well on deer but the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip and Accubond are the ones I worry about. It was the Ballistic Silvertip that gave me the trouble and Ive heard the same thing from other hunters. You never know when or what gun the plastic pass through will occur in.

 

[Akajun]

I have been hearing a lot of good things about Federal Fusion ammo, as deer ammo. This looks real good but I havent tried one yet. I have seen Federals with Nosler ballistic tips do well on deer but the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip and Accubond are the ones I worry about. It was the Ballistic Silvertip that gave me the trouble and Ive heard the same thing from other hunters. You never know when or what gun the plastic pass through will occur in.

The ballistic silvertip is a ballistic tip with a moly/carnuba wax coating. Same bullet.

 

[deafdave3]

I started neck shooting whenever possible at 150 yrds and in. Most are DRT, but some so flop for a few seconds. All fall in their tracks. I only do this on my meat deer and only when I know I can pull off the shot (braced). I shot a 165gr 308, currently Federal Fusion ammo.

Lemme ask... using a .308, how far is it sighted in? If its sighted in for 100 yards, does your .308 (with 165gr bullet) hit high or low at 150 yards?

 

[Uncle John]

The one bullet I wish they would bring back is the Winchester Silvertip for the standard rifles I use for deer hunting. Of the 137 deer Ive taken I can only recal recovering 3 bullets other than a few buckshot pellets. A 30-30 170 grain Silvertip at 9 yards, a 284 Winchester 150 grain Power Point at 200 yards and a 350 Rem Mag 200 grain Corloct at 200 yards. I've never recovered a bullet from a broad side shot on a deer.

I use at least a 165 grain bullet for a 30 cal to go compleatly through hogs not deer. Otherwise a 150 grain would be fine. All bets are off on hog bullets....

So as far as standard factory loaded ammo a Winchester 165 grain Soft Point will put your deer down inside standard deer ranges. So will a Corloct, a Power Power Point, an Interlock, and most likely the Fusion.

I have had three Plastic Pass Throughs. 30-06 168 grain Balistic Silvertip on a deer at 100yards the deer ran over 100 yards. 30-06 at 8 yards same bullet on a 100 pound hog it ran 100 yards including crossing a creek at 50 yards. 308 150 grain Balistic Silvertip, deer at 40 yards Now this one ran 150 yards. All three were perfect broadside lung shots with small exit holes. Of course I continue to hear stories about the same and have even heard the term Plastic Pass Through on the outdoor channel, so Im not the only one.

So on Louisiana Deer and most others sound advise for the 30-06 is still the 165 grain Winchester Soft Point.

 

[dzelenka]

Lemme ask... using a .308, how far is it sighted in? If its sighted in for 100 yards, does your .308 (with 165gr bullet) hit high or low at 150 yards?

low

 

[dzelenka]

The one bullet I wish they would bring back is the Winchester Silvertip for the standard rifles I use for deer hunting. Of the 137 deer Ive taken I can only recal recovering 3 bullets other than a few buckshot pellets. A 30-30 170 grain Silvertip at 9 yards, a 284 Winchester 150 grain Power Point at 200 yards and a 350 Rem Mag 200 grain Corloct at 200 yards. I've never recovered a bullet from a broad side shot on a deer.

I use at least a 165 grain bullet for a 30 cal to go compleatly through hogs not deer. Otherwise a 150 grain would be fine. All bets are off on hog bullets....

So as far as standard factory loaded ammo a Winchester 165 grain Soft Point will put your deer down inside standard deer ranges. So will a Corloct, a Power Power Point, an Interlock, and most likely the Fusion.

I have had three Plastic Pass Throughs. 30-06 168 grain Balistic Silvertip on a deer at 100yards the deer ran over 100 yards. 30-06 at 8 yards same bullet on a 100 pound hog it ran 100 yards including crossing a creek at 50 yards. 308 150 grain Balistic Silvertip, deer at 40 yards Now this one ran 150 yards. All three were perfect broadside lung shots with small exit holes. Of course I continue to hear stories about the same and have even heard the term Plastic Pass Through on the outdoor channel, so Im not the only one.

So on Louisiana Deer and most others sound advise for the 30-06 is still the 165 grain Winchester Soft Point.

Winchester still makes the Silvertip for .30-06 and .30-30 as well as several other calibers.

And it is "Core-Lokt".