A question for AR-15 gurus....

[simplyorange]

i am getting into buying my first rifle and i am a fan of the ar15 style, growing up i have been told that you always want a numbers matching gun, but during my web browsing i see alot of people building thier ar's from scratch using spikes tactical mil-spec recievers and uppers from daniel defense or other manufacturers and so on,i also see these custom built guns selling for 3times the cost of a numbers matching gun in many cases, for an ar15 is it important for the numbers to match or is that oldschool thinking, it seems like alot of people are piecing them together and me being the type of person that likes building anything, i would like to piece together my own gun, im just concerned with the quality of the gun if i put it together from different manufacturers.

 

[dwr461]

If you build a mutt you have the value of the sum total of the pieces. Which is fine if it's what you want. I have a 40 Colt upper with a M4 barrel mounted to it and a EA lower. It works and hasn't jammed yet. Which is remarkable given that the parts overall were made over a 40 year time span from multiple manufacturers. It was fun for me to put together my own rifle too.
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43196

Dave

 

[tactical723]

Most Uppers with the exception of Colt will not have numbers on them or be able to be identifed to a matching lower. There is nothing wrong with a frankenstein AR, as long as it is what you want. dwr461 is correct in that case it is the sum of both parts. Remember the AR is a very well designed modular system, all interchangable. Most milspec uppers such as DSA, JSE, Model 1, Delton will be very close to identical in manufacturer. If you are building a generic M4 style milspec, really does not matter if you mix / match uppers and lowers.

If you want to stay with a premium unit such as Spikes, Noveske, Daniel Defense, etc, it is better to keep the lower / upper the same as one matching unit, as the resale / trade in value will remain high as it is a premium complete unit (upper/lower). All depends what you want and how much you want to spend.

 

[simplyorange]

thanks for the help, i want to start with a spikes lower reciever and probably use a daniel defense upper with a stainless barrel that is undecided yet, but like other stated, i think the best thing about the gun will be building it, i wont expect my money back out of it, i know how the toy game goes, its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but itll be priceless to me if i build it right.i didnt realize the reciever was the only numbered item, if that is the case then it will technically be matching nubers because i plan to use a complete lower from spikes.

 

[Hitman]

Is your interest in owning an AR or BUILDING and Owning an AR?

If you just want an AR from a good deal, the market place has some pretty good deals right now.

Most folks I know didn't build their first AR. They bought one, then built their second.

 

[simplyorange]

my interest is to build my own ar then own it, i have seen the bushmasters on sale with bushnell red dot for $650, but im not an "off the self" type of guy, i like the self satisfaction of taking a step back and thinking "yeah,i designed and built that"...im a very mechanically inclined person so when i started reading up on building a gun i got all tickled inside.my brother in law is an army ranger, he said get all of the parts together and he will oversee it while i put it together to make sure i dont make a stupid error.

its also easier for me to talk HER into $200 a few times than $1000 once

does anyone know what parts these are so i can locate them?these are the only parts i want and cannot find, im thinking a spikes complete lower, larue upper with 9" handguard with the 16" stainless barrel shown below, and the grip below, with a EOtech 512 holographic and a spikes front sight. but if the barrel in the last pic comes as a complete upper, i may go that route.i have a picture of what i want in my head, i just need to find the parts to make it happen.i like the upper in the first and the last pic below, whichever is cheaper is probably the route i will take.

the barrel in this pic.

the hand guard/ handle in this one

and the barrel/upper in this one?

 

[Hitman]

Can't view photobucket from work or I'd help.

 

[SpeedRacer]

The last pic is an integrally surpressed barrel (silencer). Big $$$ and lots of paperwork and waiting. As for the stainless barrel, IMO you're spending more and adding unnecessary weight.

As for building vs buying, I prefer building since you get exactly what you want. Unless you find something premade that is close to your final goal, you'll typically end up spending more buying a complete rifle and swapping out parts. That said, one thing I have noticed is you will NOT get your money back on a custom rifle if you ever decide to sell. I typically see custom built rifles selling for 2/3 - 3/4 of the cost of the parts. Not sure how much that matters to you...

Another thing to consider with building from scratch is the added cost ($~100) for the tools to do the job right. For your first AR, I'd recommend building the lower yourself and slapping a complete upper on it. I wouldn't worry much about building anything exact right now, since your taste/wants in your AR are guaranteed to change as you spend more time with one. I learned from experience to start simple and add things you decide you need as you go. I did it the other way and lost a lot of money by building a pimped-out AR and then eventually selling off parts I realized were providing no real benefit other than excess weight.

Disclaimer: this is all just my opinion, and a guru I am not.

 

[f350drvr]

That "barrel" in the last picture is a supressor.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Here you go...

http://www.ar15builder.com/

 

[simplyorange]

so it looks like ill be going with the option close to the first pic,i didnt realize the stainless barrel was that much heaier than the standard.i may go with a spikes lower, and just buy their complete upper 16" with 9" hand guard, the main thing i do not want on the gun is the fixed front sight, i want to have the option of not having one at all.if i go that route, all i have to do it fit it with some magpul furniture and optics and im good to go.the handguard is magpul, i just found it.id really like to have a trick barrel, do they make one that is cut like the first pic just lighter? i want those grooves to be visible, it doesnt have to shine.

 

[Hitman]

Do you plan on installing the lower parts kit into the lower reciever yourself?

 

[simplyorange]

Do you plan on installing the lower parts kit into the lower reciever yourself?

no, i want to buy a complete lower,after reasearching it looks like ill only be doing a minimal assembly, i dont mind buying tools to do the job, but building the lower from scratch is a little intimidating considering i have never even taken an ar apart, i have only shot one.so i think it may be a good idea to keep the assembly on my part to a minimum for now until i get a chance to study one a little more closely.


i just want a certain look with certain furniture, and certain sights, and nobody offers the things i want in a 5.56 capable carbine, i pretty much want a higher quality version of the bushmaster ORC

 

[RocknRolla]

The last pic is an integrally surpressed barrel (silencer). Big $$$ and lots of paperwork and waiting. As for the stainless barrel, IMO you're spending more and adding unnecessary weight.

As for building vs buying, I prefer building since you get exactly what you want. Unless you find something premade that is close to your final goal, you'll typically end up spending more buying a complete rifle and swapping out parts. That said, one thing I have noticed is you will NOT get your money back on a custom rifle if you ever decide to sell. I typically see custom built rifles selling for 2/3 - 3/4 of the cost of the parts. Not sure how much that matters to you...

Another thing to consider with building from scratch is the added cost ($~100) for the tools to do the job right. For your first AR, I'd recommend building the lower yourself and slapping a complete upper on it. I wouldn't worry much about building anything exact right now, since your taste/wants in your AR are guaranteed to change as you spend more time with one. I learned from experience to start simple and add things you decide you need as you go. I did it the other way and lost a lot of money by building a pimped-out AR and then eventually selling off parts I realized were providing no real benefit other than excess weight.

Disclaimer: this is all just my opinion, and a guru I am not.

Gotta agree with this.

Assembling the lower is not hard. If you have any mechanical aptitude at all there are a few videos and how-to tutorials online that will guide you step by step. Look at ar15.com. They have a few really good build stickies.

It's daunting I know. I have two AR's and I built both of them. With AR's (like most things) you can do it Right, Fast, Cheap - pick two. I built both of mine when prices were through the roof and I built them for less than you can buy one new now. Patience and you can build them with quality parts for cheaper.

And do yourself a favor, try out all those tactical doohickeys on someone else's gun before you drop cash on them. In my opinion, most of them are useless garbage at best.

 

[Hitman]

no, i want to buy a complete lower,after reasearching it looks like ill only be doing a minimal assembly,

Just checking

 

[dfsutton]

no, i want to buy a complete lower,after reasearching it looks like ill only be doing a minimal assembly, i dont mind buying tools to do the job, but building the lower from scratch is a little intimidating considering i have never even taken an ar apart, i have only shot one.so i think it may be a good idea to keep the assembly on my part to a minimum for now until i get a chance to study one a little more closely.


i just want a certain look with certain furniture, and certain sights, and nobody offers the things i want in a 5.56 capable carbine, i pretty much want a higher quality version of the bushmaster ORC

My question is are you going for a certain look or a certain function?

My personal recommendation is to buy a Colt 6920/6720 or a BCM carbine and shoot it a lot. After doing so, I think you might question a lot of the stuff people put on their rifles, and find you're quite happy with only a few minor tweaks.

 

[simplyorange]

well i want looks and function, i want a comfortable gun to hold.thats why i want a specific front grip.i also dont want the front sight because i want to run either a magnifying scope or red dot or holographic, i havent decided on one yet but i know that i dont plan to ever use a front sight and would rather it not be in my way.

for the looks, i figure if i piece one together i might as well have something that makes me smile when its in the cabinet not being used.


i appreciate all of the input and insight, my expierience with AR's are minimal and im trying to learn as much as i can before i make the first purchase.i just dont want to spend $650 on a bushmaster with a average red dot that cant shoot 5.56 and already needs attention in several areas to be what i want.
so bear with me if i make some really newbie types of comments, i welcome education on the subject.

 

[dfsutton]

well i want looks and function, i want a comfortable gun to hold.thats why i want a specific front grip.

But how are you gonna know what really feels comfortable until you know what the base rifle feels like after hundreds of rounds? I though I wanted a quad rail on my Colt 6920 but after shooting more and more, I've found that it would be unecessary cost and weight for my needs.

i also dont want the front sight because i want to run either a magnifying scope or red dot or holographic, i havent decided on one yet but i know that i dont plan to ever use a front sight and would rather it not be in my way.

I have an Aimpoint T-1 that i use and I have the Factory front sight Base. I use a lower 1/3 co-witness and it is not a problem at all.

i appreciate all of the input and insight, my expierience with AR's are minimal and im trying to learn as much as i can before i make the first purchase.i just don't want to spend $650 on a bushmaster with a average red dot that cant shoot 5.56 and already needs attention in several areas to be what i want.
so bear with me if i make some really newbie types of comments, i welcome education on the subject.

Check out these 2 threads on this website:

Go Shoot the Gun

M4carbine.net Knowledge base threads

I am a casual shooter at best, these guys are a lot smarter than me.

 

[simplyorange]

i guess i am taking a shot in the dark at what i believe will be comfortable. so you think i should buy a ready to shoot and modify as i need?

 

[SpeedRacer]

i guess i am taking a shot in the dark at what i believe will be comfortable. so you think i should buy a ready to shoot and modify as i need?

That's what I recommend. Shoot the rifle, and then decide what you need to add to perform "XXX" function. Chances are you won't really need anything. A basic midlength AR with a nice optic will get the job done all day every day. Spend the money you save on tactical thingamajigs on a better optic or trigger. I do thing the basic Magpul products (buttstock, grip and handguard) are a nice, high-value upgrade.

I'm also a big fan of the standard front sight with lower 1/3 cowitness. If it's a range toy it's not a big deal, but on a defensive/SHTF rifle I *really* like knowing my front sight is there ready to go. Iron sights don't need batteries.

There's a standard front sight base hidden under that light.