i've been loading my ammo 'stash', you know the ammo you use for plinking, zombie attack, emergency self defense with fmj and cast lead. does anyone load hollow points for non-carry self defense?
JHP’s are common for folks reloading 9 Major.
If you want to reload JHP for target use, go for it.
Don’t reload ammunition for self defense.
... there is also the legal aspect of shooting someone with reloads which I'm sure most knowledgeable gun guys know already.
I understand that everyone "knows" this but has there ever been an actual court case? I've looked several times over the years but can't find anything that legitimizes this common knowledge.
In full disclosure, there is no sarcasm font and I'm not looking for the tired debate of "just because you can, should you" or "you be the first". I'm genuinely curious if anyone can site a case that was successfully prosecuted.
I prefer carrying LEA proven rounds such as Gold Dot, HST, Critical Duty, PDX1, Golden Saber, etc. to "Roll Your Own Rounds".
I understand that everyone "knows" this but has there ever been an actual court case? I've looked several times over the years but can't find anything that legitimizes this common knowledge.
In full disclosure, there is no sarcasm font and I'm not looking for the tired debate of "just because you can, should you" or "you be the first". I'm genuinely curious if anyone can site a case that was successfully prosecuted.
This is because Massad Ayoob has preached that narrative. Whether there have been actual court cases or not is irrelevant, because the simple fact of the matter is that you cannot perform reliable testing to ensure your reloads are effective as a jacketed hollow point defensive round.
The legal argument is the only one relevant to my question. The fact that you survive a shooting event to be prosecuted testifies to the fact that your reload was just as effective. "Reliable Testing" is not a disqualifier for the need of any individual to use lethal force to protect themselves. FMJ's or hard cast bullets wont expand, even factory loaded. If you watch enough penetration/expansion videos of factory defensive ammo you will see that they dont always expand as well as the designers hope.
Which of these penetration/expansion videos are you speaking of? The majority on YouTube don’t follow FBI testing protocol, so it’s also irrelevant. Did you happen to watch the video I shared? It’s full of valuable information from actual experts in the field of ballistics testing.
I'm sure your videos are more relevant to industry standards but my statement was not to challenge their relevance nor to bunny trail onto FBI protocols. I'm questioning the "common knowledge" statute that so often gets repeated. If what you believed were not true, would you want to know? "You" not actually being you, speaking rhetorically.
+1 Lucky Gunner
For years, I’ve warned people that there are a couple of serious concerns with using handloaded ammunition for personal or home defense. The big one is forensic replicability when the shooter is accused, and opposing theories of distance become a factor.
How often does this happen? One time some years ago, that question came up on an internet debate. I looked through the ten cases I had pending at the time as an expert witness, and gunshot residue (GSR) testing to determine distance from gun muzzle to the person shot was an issue in four of them. Forty percent is not what I’d call statistically insignificant.
I’ve found this to be perhaps the most visceral and contentious of gun forum debates. When I suggest to someone that the ammo he crafted himself might be a handicap in court, it’s as if they had just prepared a Thanksgiving feast for their family from scratch, and I’d told them *Don’t poison your family with that crap, go out and buy them some KFC.*
They react as if you had told them they had ugly babies.
Here are two very good writeups, at least one by an attorney, explaining how and why handloaded ammunition can muddy the waters if and when you find yourself in court after a self-defense shooting:
https://www.glocktalk.com/a/the-peculiar-problem-of-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.18/
and
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/carrying-handloads-for-self-defense.618021/
Read, and if you have any friends who use handloads for serious social purposes, please share. You might just save them from the sort of nightmare suffered by the defendant in New Jersey v. Daniel Bias, who was bankrupted by legal fees before the first of his three trials was over, and wound up serving hard time. Both of his attorneys were convinced he was innocent, and told me they believed that if he had simply had factory ammo in his home defense gun, the case would probably never have even gone to trial.
I guess I am a little confused by the whole question . What is emergency self defense and when is self defense not an emergency and why would self defense ammo be different for non carry -v- carry ? Hollow points are my choice for self defense at home and on the road . As far as reload v factory I have experienced several factory rounds fail to fire or stay put in case and never had one of my reloads fail to fire or bullet stay put . I use factory loads for playing but when my life is on the line I prefer the person who loaded my bullets to do so as their life depended on it going bang and that's me .i've been loading my ammo 'stash', you know the ammo you use for plinking, zombie attack, emergency self defense with fmj and cast lead. does anyone load hollow points for non-carry self defense?
I guess I am a little confused by the whole question . What is emergency self defense and when is self defense not an emergency and why would self defense ammo be different for non carry -v- carry ? Hollow points are my choice for self defense at home and on the road . As far as reload v factory I have experienced several factory rounds fail to fire or stay put in case and never had one of my reloads fail to fire or bullet stay put . I use factory loads for playing but when my life is on the line I prefer the person who loaded my bullets to do so as their life depended on it going bang and that's me .
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No. Even a .22 short round severing the spinal cord is enough to end a fight, but it’s not one to count on.
You're correct,Like you I have never found a case either!
Send an email to Massad Ayoob, I'm sure he can give some cases. https://massadayoobgroup.com/
The legal argument is the only one relevant to my question. The fact that you survive a shooting event to be prosecuted testifies to the fact that your reload was just as effective.