Another...which 1911 thread

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  • Ske1etor

    BOOM! LEGSHOT!
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    11   0   0
    Jan 30, 2008
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    Chacahoula, Louisiana
    Dear Ske1etor:

    I won't comment on your sophomoric "cocked & locked" statement, other than to say that BATF (and the rest of the world) have a far different understanding. You might as well have included revolvers in your "sounds like" statement.

    You might as well add some more stuff that I haven't posted. Seems like this is one of your favorite things to do on these forums. If someone doesn't say it, they can rely on you to put the words in their mouths.


    Please note also that there is a vast difference between the term "level of training" and a complete lack of training. The former connotes that you have actually had some. Based on your comments, it appears that your "training" is comprised primarily of keyboard research and/or subscriptions to gun rags.

    Yes, because you can tell from my postings on an internet website my level of training. Only a fool judges a man based on his assumptions. I don't have a single subscription to a gun magazine and I am an active shooter at our local shooting range for atleast 2 hours a week, every week.

    Internet research and magazine articles aren't bad per se. But it's kinda like some guy who has read a bunch of books on golf. His opinions on that sport would carry more weight if he had actually competed in and distinguished himself in some professional competitions.

    I totally agree which is why I take everything on this website with a grain of salt. You can sit there and play armchair commando and act like you have had five million hours of training when in actuality you have had none.

    It is amazing (and sometimes fun) to watch people visit a forum such as this where they could learn from people like LSP (maybe one day you'll get a glimpse of his resume') and instead choose to argue and post asinine opinions. However, at least folks here are, for the most part, polite in responding to those posts.

    So because I carry a 1911 my opinion is asinine?

    I'm sure you're a nice guy. And I have no doubt that you are intelligent. Now you just need to get some training to complement all your internet "wisdom." Go take a couple of handgun self defense courses and then come back and give us the benefit of your knowledge.

    I am working on more training at this point. I apologize for working 70 hours a week keeping you and your fellow BayouShooter.com members safe on our states interstates and state maintained highways.

    Several members here can help you with recommendations for a number of top-flight training academies. Good luck.

    Several members here would also disagree with you. See, that is the way it works on the internet. Just because you agree with someones opinion doesn't mean it is "The Opinion".

    Because those safeties you mentioned must be dis-engaged BEFORE the pistol can fire; and therein lies the rub.

    Your average 1911 trigger takes quite a bit less pressure to trip the sear (or release the striker, depending on what pistol you're referring to) than the "service" type pistols popular today; Glocks, DA Sigs, LEM HKs, etc. And there is more out there than high-cap polymer autos; sounds like Glock-hate to me...:D

    That is one reason why semi-autos were never popular, and DA revolvers reigned, with US police until the late 80s. No matter how hard you try to beat it into them not to, non-gun people ARE going to put their finger on the trigger when under duress.

    Non-gun people is defined as those who cannot (or more properly WILL not) take the time and effort to train and become proficient with their weapon. Granted, police and military handgun training (with the notable exception of the spec ops people) is woefully inadequate; but that doesn't relieve anyone from the awesome responsibility one incurs when one chooses to carry.

    This is something that guys like Skeletor simply cannot come to grips with. They cannot understand and/or acknowledge how someone who carries a gun for a living isn't as enthusiastic about shooting as they are. I don't understand it either; and I've lived it for many, many years. But I acknowledge it.

    I can absolutely come to grips with the fact that someone without the proper firearm safety training and at least a decent amount of trigger time is an ND waiting to happen but to simply say that one carrying a 1911 is more susceptible to an ND is just silly. If I follow your posts, the guy would forget to sweep off the thumb safety anyway so the trigger would be rendered useless. Right? Oh, that must not apply now. Now the guy will remember to sweep the safety off but then accidentally pull the trigger under stress?

    Sadly, I must lump many non-police/military "enthusiasts" in this category of "non-gun people". These are folks who, like Dawg mentioned, get most all of their "knowledge" from the internet or gun magazines. As I said earlier, such people with a 1911 are an ND waiting to occur.

    I'm not throwing rocks at anyone in particular here; just making a general observation; backing up, if you will, my previously-stated opinion.;)

    .

    Just because someone gets all of their information from the internet and gun mags doesn't mean that they are incapable of being safe with a firearm and it doesn't take trip to thunder ranch to learn how to handle a pistol. If it did, only about 3 percent of the firearm owning world would be properly trained to handle a firearm safely. The statistics on ND's and AD's simply don't back that up.

    I will however agree that proper training can only help, but don't sit there and assume that only people who have trained for hundreds of hours can safely and effectively utilize a firearm when needed.
     

    dawg23

    Resident Dimwit
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    Sep 17, 2006
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    Baton Rouge
    Dear Mr. Ske1etor:

    1. Reading comprehension is your friend.

    2. Get some training. Lists of recommendations are available.

    3. See Spanky's signature line.

    4. You have convinced me that I was wrong in one of my assumptions. I would like to publicly retract the second sentence of the next-to-last paragraph of my previous post.
     
    Last edited:

    Nomad.2nd

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    Dec 9, 2007
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    Baton Rouge... Mostly
    Ske1etor:

    I weigh in because I'm NOT LSP972.

    You may be able to tell that we disagree frequently... (Ok, A whole ^&*( lot!):D

    HOWEVER, let me make a couple observations:

    1. 1911's are designed to be hand made, or atleast hand fitted.
    Much like Older S&W's... they are a thing of beauty. But they are not compatable with today's 'injection molding, mass produced' etc...

    (And I LOVE 1911's... took one to Gunsite, Shot Practical Pistol with it, Carried one till about a year ago)

    2. It does you no credit to say things like:
    Just because someone gets all of their information from the internet and gun mags doesn't mean that they are incapable of being safe with a firearm and it doesn't take trip to thunder ranch to learn how to handle a pistol.

    Due to the fact that you have no experence to base that statement on.
    (Or so I infer from your post)

    I take it from your comment that you are a state Trooper.
    I have been in over a Dozen Shooting classes and have helped with quite a few others. I'm always shocked at the low participation from LEO's (And Yes, sadly often the DISMAL skills of some who DO show up) On the other hand... there are some EXTREMELY professional and skilled LEO's out there...
    They are a small minority.

    I believe that Thunder Ranch/Gunsite type places are EXCELLENT places to learn how to shoot well. However I believe that it does not stop there, shooting and moving etc.

    In Camden Tn there is a School called Tactical Response. (www.tacticalresponse.com) They r... Can I get a "Get out of Jail free card?":D:D
     

    dawg23

    Resident Dimwit
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    Sep 17, 2006
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    Baton Rouge
    Ske1etor:

    I weigh in because I'm NOT LSP972.

    You may be able to tell that we disagree frequently... (Ok, A whole ^&*( lot!):D

    It does you no credit to say things like:
    "Just because someone gets all of their information from the internet and gun mags doesn't mean that they are incapable of being safe with a firearm and it doesn't take trip to Thunder Ranch to learn how to handle a pistol."

    Due to the fact that you have no experience to base that statement on.
    (Or so I infer from your post)

    I take it from your comment that you are a state Trooper.

    I believe that Thunder Ranch/Gunsite type places are EXCELLENT places to learn how to shoot well. However I believe that it does not stop there, shooting and moving etc.

    In Camden Tn there is a School called Tactical Response. (www.tacticalresponse.com) They r...ng the sheep from the goats in short order.;)
     

    Witness

    >Glock
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    Jun 4, 2008
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    baton rouge
    At lunch, Dawg mentioned that HE took this as a left-handed compliment to me.

    If that was your intention, then you have my apologies for my response above.

    If such was NOT your intention, then...:madfawk:

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

    lets just say i am turning over a new leaf ;)

    i had a very hard core reality check at which time i decided it was time to start acting my age and realize the error of my ways.

    i will say this though, and this is something that i believe very strongly in; the 1911 vs. glock debate will NEVER end. some people think the 1911 is a time tested platform. some may feel that if a kimber 1911 is good enough for some police S.W.A.T then it is good enough for them. i can not bring myself to call such a person "wrong." at the same time there are people who believe that glock is the best gun ever. its a great platform. its rock solid right out of the box, and will probably go bang EVERY SINGLE TIME you pull the trigger. the differnce between me and the OP, is that i trust my weapon with my life. it has 100% -earned- its place in my CCW holster. the fact that it is ported is a whole different debate.

    Dawg, LSP, Pangris, they know their ****. i didnt read every single word, but i dont think that anyone said that a 1911 is -not- a gun worth carrying. i think that point here is that if youre going to buy a 1911 for carry, then get out your check book b/c it aint gonna be cheap. you never know though, you may get one that runs great, even then you may shoot it for a few years before you feel that it is worthy of carry.

    my whole thing is, carry something you trust to go bang when your life hangs in the balance. i trust my 1911. some may call me crazy, but i trust it. for the last time, my 1911 EARNED its spot as my carry gun. lets just say that it wasnt exactly a budget carry project.
     

    SpeedRacer

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    Feb 23, 2007
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    Mandeville, LA
    i think that point here is that if youre going to buy a 1911 for carry, then get out your check book b/c it aint gonna be cheap. you never know though, you may get one that runs great, even then you may shoot it for a few years before you feel that it is worthy of carry.

    my whole thing is, carry something you trust to go bang when your life hangs in the balance. i trust my 1911. some may call me crazy, but i trust it. for the last time, my 1911 EARNED its spot as my carry gun. lets just say that it wasnt exactly a budget carry project.
    +1

    I could've bought 4 Glocks for the price of my Wilson. But an easily concealed, rock solid reliable .45 that can shoot 1" groups @ 25 yards is worth it to me.
     

    Witness

    >Glock
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    another thing i get hung up on is that glocks just are not fun for me to shoot. i have no desire to go out and practice with a gun that i dont even like to shoot. thats one more reason why my 1911 gets the nod.
     

    Cajun_Chuck

    Premium Certified Cajun
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    +1

    I could've bought 4 Glocks for the price of my Wilson. But an easily concealed, rock solid reliable .45 that can shoot 1" groups @ 25 yards is worth it to me.

    I will also be looking at the Wilson's for OWB carry & shooting. They are on the high side, price wise, but a lot of owners say that they are worth their weight in gold. I had it narrowed down to a few pistols in two different catagories.

    Higher End Customs:
    Les Bauer Ultimate Master
    Ed Brown Kobra
    Nighthawk Predator or Dominator (not sure yet)
    Wilson Protector

    Medium End Customs:
    Springfield TRP
    Rock River Pro Carry
    Dan Wesson Commander Classic Bobtail

    I work this weekend, but hopefully I will be able to get a little bit reading in @ work! ;) I CAN actually log onto this forum from work (stupid firewall). Freaking awesome for me!! :D

    OF COURSE the more I read & spoke to people, the more I heard, do it right the first time. So with that in mind, I had removed the $ reserve that I had initially set. I know that might sound insane to some, but I was about to purchase a PS90 but that has changed due to this infatuation with a 1911.

    One trainer (can't remember the institute) said that people who go through the more tactical training courses are a lot of serious gun enthusiasts & collectors, and some of these guys bring their "shiny" and "expensive" guns, but do not do enough shooting with them prior to that, therefore they may see more FTE or issues w/ them because of the "tightness" or being unfamiliar with their newer custom gun. He recommended many shooters to use the gun they use the most when going to the range or hunting for the training course. Springfield & Kimber were highly recommended and I think this is because there are more of these out on the market or in use daily. IDK.

    Anyways, just wanted to update where I was. Still sitting on the fence right now. Might be another 3 weeks (next pay day) before I uhm...pull the trigger on a new pistol.

    Thank you to all the guys actually providing positive feedback & constructive criticism dealing with the 1911 platform pistols.
     

    Nomad.2nd

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    What did Ske1etor post to make you think he is a State Trooper? "70 hours per week on the highway" could just as easily mean driving a DOTD dump truck or working in a weigh station.

    Perhaps I ASSuMEd, But when he said that and the '2 hours on the range coment' I couldn't see someone bragging otherwise. Perhaps I am wrong.:confused:

    In any event, I doubt that "Trooper Ske1etor" will take you up on the trip to Camden, Tennessee. But if he does, he's in for an attitude adjustment (And I mean that in a good way).

    Don't think he will. Hope he does.

    All the internet myths and gun rag BS will be out the window after a couple of days with Yeager. I presume from your post that you are an alumnus ..........if so, you know that self taught "hot shots" often become mere mortals. Yeager has a special way of separating the sheep from the goats in short order.;)

    Yea, I've met Yeager a time or three...:mamoru:
     

    Vanilla Gorilla

    The Gringo Pistolero
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    Feb 22, 2008
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    The handling issues with the 1911 were so far down on the list of issues when they switched to the M9. They chose the M9 due to the 9mm chambering said:
    Im outta this drivel fest but FYI their aren't any UN Small Arms Standards. I think what you are refeering to are NATOs standards. That still doesn't make you right however. 2 of the manufacturers who submited guns for consideration handed in 9mm 1911s. Handling issues were the reason those guns were not considered. The "High Capacity" requirment only required a 10 round capacity.
     

    Ske1etor

    BOOM! LEGSHOT!
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    Not a state trooper.

    Wish I could afford to go to tennessee to take a class. Would actually be ecstatic about it but the current budget will not allow it.

    I don't think you quite understood what I was attempting to say. My point is that you do not need hundreds of hours to be safe with a handgun and you do not need that level of training to be able to effectively use a handgun. I have been shooting handguns since I was 6 years old. That gives me over 20 years of experience. Now, I am not saying that I am a good competitor, exceptional in the field of handgun fighting or anything like that but I can hold my own in my opinion.

    I do wish to seek higher levels of training, trust me, I just cannot afford it right now. Maybe you could send Bobby Jindall an email and request that State Government employees receive the cost of living raise we have been waiting on since 1968.

    LSP, I apologize for getting UN and NATO mixed up in my post. I was in a rush typing that response and didn't catch the mistake. I also apologize for not knowing the entire story on why they switched to the 92. My mistake.

    I will refrain from further commenting in this discussion and any 1911 related discussion on this forum since my opinion is not welcome.

    Can I praise Glock and HK? That seems to be more openly accepted here.
     

    Nomad.2nd

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    Not a state trooper.

    Wish I could afford to go to tennessee to take a class. Would actually be ecstatic about it but the current budget will not allow it.

    BAH, I've traded guns for training. (Yes, it IS that important!)

    I don't think you quite understood what I was attempting to say. My point is that you do not need hundreds of hours to be safe with a handgun and you do not need that level of training to be able to effectively use a handgun. I have been shooting handguns since I was 6 years old. That gives me over 20 years of experience. Now, I am not saying that I am a good competitor, exceptional in the field of handgun fighting or anything like that but I can hold my own in my opinion.

    To be safe, no. But your other comments... You just don't KNOW...

    I do wish to seek higher levels of training, trust me, I just cannot afford it right now. Maybe you could send Bobby Jindall an email and request that State Government employees receive the cost of living raise we have been waiting on since 1968.

    DUDE! I'm an E-4 in the Marines! That dog won't hunt.

    Like Yeager says about the rising cost of ammo:
    "Those who train will train anyway. Those who don't will continue to find excuses."
     

    Ske1etor

    BOOM! LEGSHOT!
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    Like Yeager says about the rising cost of ammo:
    "Those who train will train anyway. Those who don't will continue to find excuses."


    I don't have extra guns lying around to trade for training. I own a hunting rifle, two handguns, a .22 rifle, a .22 handgun and a shotgun. The only one that could be even considered close to "extra" is the XD-40 and that is my truck/nightstand gun.

    An E-4 Marine can live on base... I can't. I was recently the victim of a stop sign runner with no insurance who t-boned my brand new pickup truck and sent me for a roll down lapalco. The truck was totaled and the my insurance skyrocketed since the other driver had no insurance on a $40,000 Yukon. I also had to pick up a new vehicle since the other one was completely trashed.

    I am working on a promotion right now and it will be coming soon, but when you are skipping lunch every day so you can keep your cellphone bill paid every month, skipping dinner for handgun training is out of the question.
     

    Nomad.2nd

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    I was recently the victim of a stop sign runner with no insurance who t-boned my brand new pickup truck and sent me for a roll down lapalco. The truck was totaled and the my insurance skyrocketed since the other driver had no insurance on a $40,000 Yukon. I also had to pick up a new vehicle since the other one was completely trashed.

    Yea, NEW vehicles are expensive.
    (Other than being a moronic investment...)

    I can see how you can't afford a class that might save your life.:rolleyes:
     

    Witness

    >Glock
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    I don't have extra guns lying around to trade for training. I own a hunting rifle, two handguns, a .22 rifle, a .22 handgun and a shotgun. The only one that could be even considered close to "extra" is the XD-40 and that is my truck/nightstand gun.

    An E-4 Marine can live on base... I can't. I was recently the victim of a stop sign runner with no insurance who t-boned my brand new pickup truck and sent me for a roll down lapalco. The truck was totaled and the my insurance skyrocketed since the other driver had no insurance on a $40,000 Yukon. I also had to pick up a new vehicle since the other one was completely trashed.

    I am working on a promotion right now and it will be coming soon, but when you are skipping lunch every day so you can keep your cellphone bill paid every month, skipping dinner for handgun training is out of the question.

    wait a second, let me get this straight. you skip meals to pay a cell phone bill but you drive a $40k truck? that doesn't quite add up. i have a suggestion, STOP USING ENRON MATH!
     

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