AR15 Help
- Thread starter IonicDOG
- Start date
The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
I am no expert but the majority of issues I see with AR SBRs and pistols is excessive bolt speed usually caused by light buffers. You can get away with different set ups in a 16" barrel vs a 11" inch or less barrel. You DO NOT have to run that oring under the extractor that most people run, I don't on any of my ARs but also use 2 spikes T2s and 1 VLTOR A5. That oring is suppossed to keep the extractor from "jumping" over the case rim, if the gun is built correctly you shouldn't need that oring. That extractor spring is a wear item that has to be replaced routinely.
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
Early unlock, mebbie-- out of spec bolt and/or lugs in the JSE?
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but what do the spent cases look like with the problematic parts? Sooty?
Early unlock -----> improper extraction due to the round not fully sealing the chamber -----> under gassed -------> short stroking?
In the 16", the dwell (proper use of the term?) could overcome the issue, as the gas gets to the key slower/more steadily.
Spitballing that-- I'm about as AR-smart as I am an accomplished chef...
Oh, and there's no reason to NOT run the O-ring insert and sturdy spring under the extractor, unless you are broke as sin. Maybe not necessary for a well built, un-tortured rifle-- but worth it in the end, especially in adverse conditions.
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but what do the spent cases look like with the problematic parts? Sooty?
Early unlock -----> improper extraction due to the round not fully sealing the chamber -----> under gassed -------> short stroking?
In the 16", the dwell (proper use of the term?) could overcome the issue, as the gas gets to the key slower/more steadily.
Spitballing that-- I'm about as AR-smart as I am an accomplished chef...
Oh, and there's no reason to NOT run the O-ring insert and sturdy spring under the extractor, unless you are broke as sin. Maybe not necessary for a well built, un-tortured rifle-- but worth it in the end, especially in adverse conditions.
goteron, I would respectfully say that if all ARs were built correctly they would be using rifle buffers not carbine buffers. 5.3oz if i remember correctly. This is why I like the VLTOR A5 so much. I personally believe there is no place in the world for any buffer lighter than an H2.
I'm glad to see no more break-in Hogwash from them. They seem to be doing what's prudent.
I think the A5 is a little bit of a marketing gimmick. You can get buffers that heavy in a carbine length setup. Not to say it doesnt work, just that its not required. I hear a lot of people on the internet saying "It shoots softer" but no verifiable data.
Most people do not have the ability to measure cyclic rate, which is "The" way to determine carrier velocity. The brass ejection method is a joke. I want the gas port to be just large enough to cycle the gun using the lowest powered ammo I will be shooting with a buffer matched to provide reliable operation. You could use a 8 ounce buffer, but then the gas port size needs to be such that you are increasing the pressure in the gas tube and carrier. There is no need for this. The lightweight game guns use lightweight carriers and buffers and they work fine with high quality ammo. As you decrease ammo quality, you need to make changes to insure reliability.
I want the lightest weight, softest shooting rifle I can get.
How did you arrive at the conclusion about the H2 being the lightest buffer you would use?
I'm no expert in anything.
Most people do not have the ability to measure cyclic rate, which is "The" way to determine carrier velocity. The brass ejection method is a joke. I want the gas port to be just large enough to cycle the gun using the lowest powered ammo I will be shooting with a buffer matched to provide reliable operation. You could use a 8 ounce buffer, but then the gas port size needs to be such that you are increasing the pressure in the gas tube and carrier. There is no need for this. The lightweight game guns use lightweight carriers and buffers and they work fine with high quality ammo. As you decrease ammo quality, you need to make changes to insure reliability.
I want the lightest weight, softest shooting rifle I can get.
How did you arrive at the conclusion about the H2 being the lightest buffer you would use?
I'm no expert in anything.
goteron,
Feel and weight (relatively speaking) are insignificant and I can't quantify the feel of an AR15 with the A5 stock anyways, I have one and you are welcome to shoot it sometime to form your own opinion regarding the feel.
I am only concerned with reliability in operation. My conclusion comes from experience, every single AR I have seen runs better with a least an H2 buffer. The two big advantages of the A5 are the rifle buffer spring and the buffer weight. You shouldn't even be thinking about gas port size as thats not something you can tune (maybe you have a machine shop but most AR shooters don't) just buy a quality barrel from a quality manufacturer and forget about it. I think you are missing some other issues as well such as bolt bounce.
Feel and weight (relatively speaking) are insignificant and I can't quantify the feel of an AR15 with the A5 stock anyways, I have one and you are welcome to shoot it sometime to form your own opinion regarding the feel.
I am only concerned with reliability in operation. My conclusion comes from experience, every single AR I have seen runs better with a least an H2 buffer. The two big advantages of the A5 are the rifle buffer spring and the buffer weight. You shouldn't even be thinking about gas port size as thats not something you can tune (maybe you have a machine shop but most AR shooters don't) just buy a quality barrel from a quality manufacturer and forget about it. I think you are missing some other issues as well such as bolt bounce.
Missing, I am in agreement with you. I don't think there is any downside to the A5 system other than cost. I agree on gas port sizing as well. A tuned factory JP rifle has a smaller port and can run an LMOS, and I understand why FN uses the sizes they do. Most shooters don't tune their systems as they should.
Are suggesting bolt bounce as an reason for the OPs issue. Bolt bounce has sooooo many factors to consider, I am convinced the spikes buffer does reduce it, they have the hi-speed to prove it.
You can tune a regular buffer much more than just H/H2 and if you weigh them, you'll see the OVerall weight varies a lot. So someone may say they are using an H2 that weighs closer to H or H3.
There is so much mis-information out there it's insane. Like people that believe gold plated audio wires makes a difference.
Are suggesting bolt bounce as an reason for the OPs issue. Bolt bounce has sooooo many factors to consider, I am convinced the spikes buffer does reduce it, they have the hi-speed to prove it.
You can tune a regular buffer much more than just H/H2 and if you weigh them, you'll see the OVerall weight varies a lot. So someone may say they are using an H2 that weighs closer to H or H3.
There is so much mis-information out there it's insane. Like people that believe gold plated audio wires makes a difference.
Goteron,
The discussion has been good, thanks. We have sufficiently hijacked the OPs thread I guess. I agree the Spikes T2 is pretty much perfect for most ARs, weight wise it is comparable to the H2. The Vltor A5 is a nice system and worth the money if you were building an AR from scratch, there is alot of hype out there but I don't think that is the case with the A5. I would be willing to bet that if the OP is not running at least a H2 or comparable then yes his gun is exhibiting bolt bounce but that may be the least of his gun's problems.
-James.
The discussion has been good, thanks. We have sufficiently hijacked the OPs thread I guess. I agree the Spikes T2 is pretty much perfect for most ARs, weight wise it is comparable to the H2. The Vltor A5 is a nice system and worth the money if you were building an AR from scratch, there is alot of hype out there but I don't think that is the case with the A5. I would be willing to bet that if the OP is not running at least a H2 or comparable then yes his gun is exhibiting bolt bounce but that may be the least of his gun's problems.
-James.
Bolt bounce happens when the bolt returns to battery. Bolt Bounce is actually a misnomer, as the bolt is already locked and you get carrier bounce. The weights in the buffer float to help counteract this. The Spikes T-2 buffer has a powder which distributes the force over a longer time and better matches the bounce impulse. Bolt bounce isnt a huge issue and probably just contributes to bolt lug wear more than anything (And jumpy sights). But there are tons of guns that exhibit it badly and the shooter is completely unaware.
Missing - Weigh your T-2, I sent one back because it was over an ounce too light. Dont assume stated weight. Same thing with standard buffers as well.
One thing people discount with buffer weight is changing muzzle devices. I went from a Blackout to a Battlecomp on one gun and the backpressure increase was so much I was getting double feeds, so I had to go to a heavier buffer.
Even for those guys that dont have issues, grab a mag of the weakest ammo available and shoot a few rounds to lock, increase the weight until it doesnt lock anymore, then remove some weight until it locks reliably, remove some more and keep that as your weight. A well buffered gun will run better and longer. Its not a guessing game.
Missing - Weigh your T-2, I sent one back because it was over an ounce too light. Dont assume stated weight. Same thing with standard buffers as well.
One thing people discount with buffer weight is changing muzzle devices. I went from a Blackout to a Battlecomp on one gun and the backpressure increase was so much I was getting double feeds, so I had to go to a heavier buffer.
Even for those guys that dont have issues, grab a mag of the weakest ammo available and shoot a few rounds to lock, increase the weight until it doesnt lock anymore, then remove some weight until it locks reliably, remove some more and keep that as your weight. A well buffered gun will run better and longer. Its not a guessing game.
Update:
This is the email I received from JSE regarding my upper.
"Our armorer ran your upper through the paces and discovered that the extractor was bad. It has been replaced and is running fine using Brown Bear and Federal ammo.
One suggestion that we have is to make sure you are keeping the chamber free of grit and everything well lubricated until the upper is broken in well. Grit in the chamber can cause cycling issues until the chamber gets polished from use."
We'll see how it runs when I get it back. Regardless, this is the last time order anything from them, I've learned my lesson.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
This is the email I received from JSE regarding my upper.
"Our armorer ran your upper through the paces and discovered that the extractor was bad. It has been replaced and is running fine using Brown Bear and Federal ammo.
One suggestion that we have is to make sure you are keeping the chamber free of grit and everything well lubricated until the upper is broken in well. Grit in the chamber can cause cycling issues until the chamber gets polished from use."
We'll see how it runs when I get it back. Regardless, this is the last time order anything from them, I've learned my lesson.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Members online
- 80man
- Mikey504
- longdude17
- Fordfella
- Labeeman
- AustinBR
- jkg1529
- cyclone1970
- AK shooter
- Strick8
- Gator 45/70
- Tacosta304
- hdfinder47
- Rodog
- PatRome
- Log Island
- CyberSlacker
- pandabear
- Slave-1
- Bigchillin83
- dantheman
- Aarong
- Cloewen53
- kz45
- Kipp Castaing
- BNC3
- BOSS302
- cjt0311
- Love2shoot
- Bagarella84
- xring100
- lutchertiger
- hotbiggun
- lilshaunsdad
- Latrag7
- PECEMKR
- Gmac
- theway109
- Wheels
- Denisbl0
- DeeMoney
- sgt z
- gman3214
- Forgotten
- 340six
- N4sir
- shootforfun
- jcbvh
- Aurellevi
- Daspy
