ATF Publishes Final Rule in Relation to ATF-41P

[MONK]

How bout this (my) scenario....

I have a trust already. I have already paid for a "can" and the tax stamp in Oct/Nov. That "can" is currently in ATF Jail awaiting final approval. I would guess that'll be done before the 180 days have passed....Here is the kicker, I have another can on order from SF waiting to get charged for it. 2 weeks ago SF said they were waiting on ATF approval of the cans. Once approved, I'll be charged and the can sent to LA where I'll pay the tax and begin the process again.

My question is what will that process be? I WILL HAVE been previously approved (hopefully) within the 2 years on the previous can... so would I be good on the no pics and prints? I realize if the can charge and shipping happen before the 180 days I'll haul ass to the shop to pay the stamp and get the forms filed and have that one in the "pipeline" before the **** storm starts. Am I close???

 

[Mouthpiece]

How bout this (my) scenario....

I have a trust already. I have already paid for a "can" and the tax stamp in Oct/Nov. That "can" is currently in ATF Jail awaiting final approval. I would guess that'll be done before the 180 days have passed....Here is the kicker, I have another can on order from SF waiting to get charged for it. 2 weeks ago SF said they were waiting on ATF approval of the cans. Once approved, I'll be charged and the can sent to LA where I'll pay the tax and begin the process again.

My question is what will that process be? I WILL HAVE been previously approved (hopefully) within the 2 years on the previous can... so would I be good on the no pics and prints? I realize if the can charge and shipping happen before the 180 days I'll haul ass to the shop to pay the stamp and get the forms filed and have that one in the "pipeline" before the **** storm starts. Am I close???

The rule says anything that is "pending" will be grandfathered in under the old rules. However, there is no definition of "pending" and I suspect it will be a subjective decision. Accordingly, I expect there will be applications sent in towards the end of the 180 days that will not meet the "pending" definition (whatever that turns out to be), which will be bounced for compliance under the new rules. The same goes for items ordered but not yet received by the dealer. I expect there will be folks who will have paid for their items long before the end of the 180 days, but will have to apply under the new rules as their dealer did not receive the item in time to apply under the old rules.

I would not expect the 24 month grace period to be applicable until after you have submitted photographs and fingerprints for the first time after the 180 day period runs. IMO, allowing folks to continue to submit applications under the old rules for up to two years after the new rules go into effect would not be consistent with the intention of the new rules.

 

[DAVE_M]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm understanding this after it goes into effect:

1) If you already have a Trust with NFA items and you don't add anything or change anything, you're ok and none of this affects you.

2) If you already have a Trust and want to add NFA items, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

3) If you already have a Trust and want to change the trust, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

4) If you want to create a new trust, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

And you have to get photos and prints for every trustee every time you add an item?

 

[US Infidel]

Thank you to those in the know for explaining this to us. I'll be trying to add as many items as possible in the next few months.


Vas te faire encule Isis. Nous sommes Unis

 

[Mouthpiece]

Ś

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm understanding this after it goes into effect:

1) If you already have a Trust with NFA items and you don't add anything or change anything, you're ok and none of this affects you.

2) If you already have a Trust and want to add NFA items, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

3) If you already have a Trust and want to change the trust, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

4) If you want to create a new trust, then you have to provide passport photos, fingerprint cards, and notify CLEO.

And you have to get photos and prints for every trustee every time you add an item?

That's about it, except I can not see an obligation to notify the ATF or submit new information if you're just changing your trust and not making a new application.

Every trustee will have to supply photos and fingerprints with the first application. However, if you have already submitted photos and fingerprints within the past 24 months (after the rules go into effect) and none of your information or trust has changed, then you're exempt from having to submit them again with your subsequent application.

 

[edman87k5]

Say I am named trustee on a trust and die leaving the trust in the hands of my beneficiary (named in trust). Would that beneficiary then have to submit fingerprints etc?

 

[US Infidel]

Say I am named trustee on a trust and die leaving the trust in the hands of my beneficiary (named in trust). Would that beneficiary then have to submit fingerprints etc?

Adding to this question, would the pics and prints be something to worry about now or once they hit 21? And the person who holds the NFA items until they are 21, would they need to do anything?


Vas te faire encule Isis. Nous sommes Unis

 

[JCcypress]

I would not expect the 24 month grace period to be applicable until after you have submitted photographs and fingerprints for the first time after the 180 day period runs. IMO, allowing folks to continue to submit applications under the old rules for up to two years after the new rules go into effect would not be consistent with the intention of the new rules.

I find a number of the number provisions to be less than clear, but I agree with this. Until there is some clarification, I will assume the ATF will be as rigid as possible.

For example:
( c) If the applicant entity has had an application approved as a maker or transferee within
the preceding 24 months, and there has been no change to the documentation previously
provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not been changed since
the prior approval and shall identify the application for which the documentation had been
submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved.

This reads as if the responsible parties could potentially submit fingerprints and photos once, then never have to do it again, as long as they are approved as a maker or transferee every 24 months. I am skeptical that the ATF will allow responsible parties to submit prints and photos only once and then be able to bypass this requirement as long as they continue to regularly buy more NFA items.

 

[JabbaTheWhat01]

I've heard a benefit of trusts is the e-filing system and that the ATF is quicker in processing. Is this the only real remaining benefit of trusts?